Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ajooter on September 05, 2013, 09:17:42 pm
-
Hey all. I was in the process of building a red oak board bow and decided last minute to put a maple backing on it. At this stage in the process the bow is very heavy and I'm working on thinning the limbs and getting a decent bend so I can start tillering. Just wondering if anybody has had any experience backing with maple and what I could expect for finish poundage.I'm shooting for 55 to 60#. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. I am absolutely envious of the way some of you guys can make a bow.
-
I would make the backing no more than 1/8 thick and trap the back a bit ,heat treat the belly as maple is strong in tension.as for draw weight shouldn't be a prob with good tiller and design.
-
I ended up trapping the back of the bow, but I didnt heat treat the belly yet. The bow is 69" ntn and is coming in at 57# @ 20" on the long string right now. I was wondering what poundage I should stop at on the long string to get a finished bow weight around 60-65#? I was also thinking about backing the bow with either rawhide or burlap. Any comments on the tiller at this point would be greatly appreciated. I am working on the road right now so the most symetrical backdrop is my hotel :P. Thanks for any help!!
(http://i.imgur.com/m7xg8Ai.jpg?1)
-
Maple is superior backing material, as long as it has the appropriate grain. I made a 120#@32" maple backed yew warbow, so it'll take you where ever you need to go with the right design.
-
I ended up trapping the back of the bow, but I didnt heat treat the belly yet. The bow is 69" ntn and is coming in at 57# @ 20" on the long string right now. I was wondering what poundage I should stop at on the long string to get a finished bow weight around 60-65#? I was also thinking about backing the bow with either rawhide or burlap. Any comments on the tiller at this point would be greatly appreciated. I am working on the road right now so the most symetrical backdrop is my hotel :P. Thanks for any help!!
(http://i.imgur.com/m7xg8Ai.jpg?1)
It's not about the poundage with the long string. It's about tip movement. As soon as your tips move enough to go to a short string or low brace, do it. The sooner the better. I don't use a long string at all anymore. I go from floor tiller to low brace. Obviously, don't ever pull your bow past your intended draw weight at any time during the tillering process, regardless of where you are. If you linger too long on the long string, your bow will often end up whip tillered.
-
Remove wood here:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/54g4k5.jpg)
I think maple is a pretty good choice for a backing for red oak. Probably easier on the belly than linen cloth, and more effective too. Red oak is pretty compression weak, and linen has caused chrysals for me in red oak. Maple is pretty forgiving. Hickory or bamboo could easily over power a red oak belly, in contrast.
-
As Mr. ADB suggested, get it braced at 2-3". It makes a huge difference when you start pulling in and down on those limbs. TMK may me right about the stiff spots, or it may look better after a short brace. Your tiller is good enough it wont hurt to low brace it now.
-
As Mr. ADB suggested, get it braced at 2-3". It makes a huge difference when you start pulling in and down on those limbs. TMK may me right about the stiff spots, or it may look better after a short brace. Your tiller is good enough it wont hurt to low brace it now.
Good points.
-
Ill be workin on her a little later...thanks for all the advise guys
-
Little confused here,did you glue on a maple backing strip?
-
Toomanyknots I think he needs to reduce the spots you pointed out plus take some at the inner fade areas
-
Yes I did glue on a maple backing...I had some bows come in a little light and thought it would help me gain a little draw weight. Just something to try. So far it seems to be working.
-
Remove wood here:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/54g4k5.jpg)
I think maple is a pretty good choice for a backing for red oak. Probably easier on the belly than linen cloth, and more effective too. Red oak is pretty compression weak, and linen has caused chrysals for me in red oak. Maple is pretty forgiving. Hickory or bamboo could easily over power a red oak belly, in contrast.
If you do what's been suggested and you dilly-dally on the long string for too long, this is exactly why your bow might end up whip tillered. Get to a low brace asap. You have enough tip movement.
-
Did you glue in any reflex or just leave it straight?
-
Heat treating at thiis point is no longer an option,maybe you know this?
-
I didn't glue in any reflex to the tips. The shear weight of the clamps and the manor I let it dry gave the limbs a little reflex. Heat treating is out of the question at this point. It hasn't lost any of the reflex as of yet during the tillering process though. At some point or other I will take some pics of the maple backings I have as well as some of the hickory ones as well and get your guys opinion. I want to get your opinion on the grain patterns in both.
-
She broke....pictures to come later. Bow was bending great at 3" brace. I wanted to see what drawlength would get me to 60# and around 17"......pow!!!!! I was just hitting 60# @ that point. Back to the drawing board. Still had a lot of fun.
-
60# is a pretty big ask for that wood and design.
-
The highest I take red oak is 35. Beyond that even a char ale one seems to lose cast due to set rapidly.
-
Go with ipe or osage on the belly next time, and you'll easily make your 60#.
-
I was looking into some ipe this morning. I have some hickory backings as well to try. I may try the maple and hickory and see how they compare. Hopefully have pics of the break up tonight.
-
I wish i had pics of it on the tree before it broke. I thought it looked really good. I think I am going to try wrapping a bicycle intertube around the limbs next time i glue on a backing. Anyways...here's the break. I also threw a picture of the brace I had the bow set at.
(http://i.imgur.com/0gkXStR.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/t8FLaNk.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/tqje7Pj.jpg?1)
Thanks again for all the advise.
-
Broke right where the grain swirls
-
Do you think a backing may have made a difference?
-
Do you think a backing may have made a difference?
??? ??? The maple is the backing.
-
I set myself up for that one!! Burlap or rawhide I meant?
-
No... you just need to pick the best backing material and apply it properly. A backing over a backing to ensure the backing doesn't fail is a flawed method of thought and will just add unnecessary mass to your limbs IMHO.
-
So did you use any clamping when gluing the backing on? Also what glue did you use? If you didn't clamp at all, i bet you had a bad glue line and the backing wasn't really doing anything, especially if you used a non-gap filling glue.
-
The highest I take red oak is 35. Beyond that even a char ale one seems to lose cast due to set rapidly.
Are you saying that red oak is only good to 35# in a strictly laminate scenario or are you including selfbows/boardbows made of red oak as well? Josh
-
Straight grained.
-
I did use a lot of clamps and the glue used was tb3. I do want to wrap the limbs next time in an effort to get a better seal.
-
I always think in terms of the limits of my materials. Red oak is a marginal bow wood and (in my opinion) is really only for bows of rather "limited" expectations. Low draw weight and kids bows are all I use it for.
-
The RO bows of 60#+ don't look marginal to me when they're posted...
-
I think red oak is a fine bow wood. Not top tier perhaps, but in no way marginal. I've seen Red Oak bows in the 50+ range shooting over 170 fps at 10gpp. I probably haven't made more than 5 or 10 red oak bows, but the ones I've made have performed well at weights of 45 - 55 lbs.
The key, I think, is picking a good board.
Gabe
-
exactly what Gabe said, I've built 55# red oak board bows that have thousands of shots in them, I made my dad in law one that was around 40# and that bow is screaming fast, you have to get quality mat. to get quality results