Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Onebowonder on September 11, 2013, 02:42:15 pm
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Having seen the other thread on hand cutting a V-splice, my curiousity was peaked, but I did not want to hijack, so here's a seperate thread.
So far, I always and ever only see a V-shaped splice or some variant (W or Z) used for building bows. Why exactly is this?
I ask based upon a previous bit of experience with boat building where we typically used a scarfed joint and found it stronger than the wood around the joint. Now, we were using softer woods than are commonly used for bows, (unless you are Ryoon!), so that may be part of the issue. Also, our joints in boats mostly did not 'work' back and forth as a bow does, and that may make a difference.
My thinking has been that the handle portion of a bow doesn't have to work that much depending upon your design. It could infact be reinforced with a wrapping of some kind, or a laminated handle, as many handles are anyway!
Being frustrated with trying to make a good V-splice, I have previously used a scarf joint on a bow, which I think is MUCH easier to do, and found it to work fine. However, this was a 28 pound toy/target bow and not a vicious meat maker.
Please enlighten me learned ones. I'm no Master Joiner, so if there is a workable and easier solution to the billet splice issue, I'd like to use it. ...but I'd very much NOT LIKE to build a bow that is going to blow-up in my hands either!!!
OneBow
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I use a W splice. It has more surface area for the glue. I cheat and cut it on my bandsaw. Spliced joints are plenty strong. I've included a pic of a 100# tri-lam warbow which has a splice in the osage on the belly wood. Granted it's not working much in the handle, but spliced joints are plenty strong if done well.
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Ive done both. A "V" is easier for me. But I like added security the "W" gives with more glue surface.
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I guess in a dead static handle a scarf joint would work just fine .
A scarf joint have wood butting end to end so if it moves at all ( like a bow moves) it will atually push itself apart.
And besides a W V or Z joint have much more bonding Surface like adb said
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Since the handle of the bow is the pivot point of the limbs, the splice will still be under a ton of stress even if it isn't bending, right?
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Because of the leverage of both limbs a handle splice is under tremendous stress. I'd use a "Z" or "W" splice.
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Z or W. I got dumb and fancy with the bandsaw and made a V with 'teeth' and I think it was just a lot of wasted time that could have been spent making a W.
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When i was researching boat building several years ago the recomended scarf was 8 times the thickness of the wood being joined. So a 1 inch thick handle would have to have an 8" long scarf. A 1 1/2" handle would need 12" long scarf. Neither is very resonable in a bow. But an 8 to 1 scarf is suposed to be stronger then the wood itself. I have never tested scarf joint strenghts so this is all just heresay.
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Might be worth mentioning in here that a lot of bowyers make spliced joints that bend. I know some warbow guys build very heavy bows (150#+) with spliced handles, and tiller the bows to full compass, so that even the splice is bending deliberately. That must take some guts.
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Might be worth mentioning in here that a lot of bowyers make spliced joints that bend. I know some warbow guys build very heavy bows (150#+) with spliced handles, and tiller the bows to full compass, so that even the splice is bending deliberately. That must take some guts.
If I ever make another spliced bow, its going to have carbon-fiber wrapped around the handle covered with gorilla tape or leather.
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Might be worth mentioning in here that a lot of bowyers make spliced joints that bend. I know some warbow guys build very heavy bows (150#+) with spliced handles, and tiller the bows to full compass, so that even the splice is bending deliberately. That must take some guts.
If I ever make another spliced bow, its going to have carbon-fiber wrapped around the handle covered with gorilla tape or leather.
What will that do?
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If I ever make another spliced bow, its going to have carbon-fiber wrapped around the handle covered with gorilla tape or leather.
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Seriously what are you saying???? I think we may have guessed that you can't cut a good splice..... ;)
V splices are used on all composite bows, principally at the handle to limbs splice and also on the tip to kasan bend. A v-splice will bend with the best of them.
If you want a splice to bend then a v splice is the one.
If you are making a spliced rigid handle then a z or w is the way to go.
Scarf joints as you say are meant to be more or less static.
To get a great fit between the parts (which is of paramount importance :) ) work them until they are as good as you can possibly get them and then steam for around 20 mins. Fit together and clamp (with no glue!!!!) until cool. Bingo - perfect mating surfaces.
Splices when done correctly are very , very strong.