Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Poggins on September 15, 2013, 10:32:41 pm
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I needHelp with a coffee tree stave.
I cut a coffee bean tree at the first of July and got four staves from it , I've worked osage mostly and haven't had any luck with a chittam wood bow I worked on before ( I have another one ready to tiller and may back it ).
I got one stave cut down to 64" ttt , one inch thick on the limbs by two inches wide a four inch handle
1 3/4" fades with the limbs thick enough to go longer if needed , I have a 25" draw length so I'm sure I have plenty of length . The sapwood is 3/8" thick and there is two pin knots four inches from one end with a gap of about half an inch between them .
With only four staves I thought it wise to ask for a little help with what design works with this wood ( probably should have asked before cutting the first one out ) , couldn't find much info on weather or not the sapwood was taken down or not.
I cut this one out and worked on two osage staves some , one with a hole in one limb and one will be a bendy handle , after the last two months I'm getting back in the groove slowly .
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I have no idea about that wood specifically, but them sure are pertty staves!
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I have never worked that wood specifically, but I have heard people leave the sapwood on and I would say for a regular longbow 1.75-2". Unless u make the bow short I would go with 1.75 keeping it thick quite a ways. Heat treating is probably a good idea. Bendy handle I would do 1.25" to 1.5" and taper very slow keeping thickness for a while.
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Keep it on the wider side, closer to 2" at the fades with a slow taper to the tips 7/16-1/2". It is a lighter wood but will make a shooter for sure. Good luck!
Tracy
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Thanks Tracy , 7/16 at the tips will help get between the pin knots .
Knew I would get an answer on here , I'll post pics of my progress as I work on it , maybe this will help someone down the road also .
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Those little things are hardly knots I wouldn't even worry about them At all my one and only walnut bow has those on it and i dropped the bow on the concrete and smooshed a few of them flat it didnt hurt it though still shoots fine id just treat them as if they didn't exist
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Twistedlimbs has made some coffeetree bows. You might try shootin him a pm. Keep us posted on how this one goes, I have a few coffeetrees that I have been thinkin bout cutting down.
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I took one of the scrap peaces from the side and made one limb of a bow from it , it was very narrow , about an inch and a quarter narrowing down to quarter of an inch . I worked it down to where it was bending even , expecting it to blow I used a long string and with the single limb fastened solid I ran the string to pull at about the same as it would on a full bow . I pulled the limb until it gave , instead of blowing it crushed the belly wood and folded over , the back did break but only after I pulled it past the point of crushing the belly. The test showed that I may have to heat treat the belly , I've read somewhere that when heated the belly turns darker , almost purple .
If it's not raining after work tomorrow I'll work on the bow some more , remark my centerline and mark the bow out and try to get it to floor tiller .
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Keep the limbs a little wide, 1 3/4 to 2" and heat treat. Keeping them wide and heat treating will prevent set, you can leave the sap wood on the one I made worked just fine with it on. I found it easy wood to work with and it smelled good when heated.
Grady
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I worked on the stave today after work , with a rainstorm on its way and the Mosquitos I didn't get to bending yet.
I started at two inches at the fades and tapered down to half an inch at the tips , I'm still just over three quarters of an inch thick the full length of the limbs , still not starting to bend yet .
The pics aren't very good , I'll try to get better ones next time .
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We had a little grass fire yesterday so I didn't get to work on the stave much , I took the drawknife to the belly and got it down to 3/4" thick and it's starting to bend now .
I need to get a sanding block out and work the saw marks off the sides and narrow the tips a little more , I'm leaving the handle alone for now until I get it close on the tiller ( one of the guys at work is retiering and I may give it to him , if so it will be left handed and 45# at 27" ) . I will try to get more pics today or tomorrow , I did a little heat treating on the scrap peace and it does turn purple .
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I haven't quit or broken the now yet ( it looks more like a bow now ) , I've got the handle and fades cut out and the bow is bending on the long string . I'm taking one sapwood ring off the back right now , it was pulling close to 45# at brace and I'm running out of heartwood ( down to about two rings ) and I want to keep some for when I heat treat .
I'll post some pics when I get a chance , it got dark on me last night .
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Looks pretty cool, I'm excited to see how it turns out. On a side note, I have seen a work benche that looks just like yours on an episode of CSI. :)
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for a little inspiration http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,18322.0.html
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Bubby, before I even clicked on your link I knew exactly what bow it was going to be, one of my all time favorites.
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Sharhand , the vice cost me $45 and the bord was free ( it was in the middle of the road , I ether had to run over it or load it up , made a good bench I just need to replace the nails with screws ) I've added the wood glue and shellac , I tend to be messy when coating the backs and ends of staves .
Thanks bubby , I've seen that one a while back just didn't look it up , I plan on backing this one with some spoonbill skins that I got from the same river the tree came from .
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Cool Poggins.I've made em out of KCT before.It's good bow wood as said earlier.I take the sapwood off of mine.Looking forward to the spoon bill skin look your gonna post.
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me too gopher, timo made some beaut's
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whew I'm glad thats rain, at first i thought it was blood :o lookin good
chuck
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I am really anxious to see how this turns out. I am seasoning a stave right now. I think I will use all heart wood.
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I got that ring chased and on the tillering tree this evening , with one limb has a little deflection and the other has a little reflex in it , kinda throws me off a little ( swatting the mesquitos doesn't help ether, that's the only blood around this bow so far ). I've pulled it to 24" and it is at 42# right now , not sure how much weight heat treating is going to add but I think that's what I'll do next . After heat treating I'm going to put deer antler tips on and get the knocks cut in and a short string on it before I mess with the tiller any more .
Chuck , I did draw a few drops of blood on those pin knots , hit my knuckle just right on them .
I think I'll get one or two more staves cut down and take the sapwood down to about two rings , on this stave one side has thicker rings than the other so the belly may not look right when I'm done , more sapwood on one side than the other .
Getting the pics to show up was a little challenging , had to stand on a tank turned over to get high enough to have a background , and it took several tries to get the drawn pic , I've got several fuzzy pics to prove it , also have a pic of the spoonbill the skins are from .
Let me know if I need to work on something before I heat treat it , I may do that tomorrow evening , Vern , the one I'm giving the bow to , may not shoot it a lot but I want it to shoot and look nice for him , he has wached my back at work out on the turnpike and showed me the ropes when I started there , he wants I light because he hasn't shot a bow in quite a while and he doesn't hunt .
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Lookin good, that wood is very pretty! Reminds me of ash with darker earlywood. Your tiller looks pretty good for that side profile.
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Thanks okie64 ,I'm going to have to keep my eyes open for more of this wood next year .
I've got three more staves left and if I lay them out right I may be able to get a couple of youth bows also . I need to get the skins out of the freezer , I thew them in a bag and put them in the freezer without peeping them any ( spring storms interrupted me while I was cleaning the fish and it was getting dark ) so I will need to get them ready also .
Hope to add to my list of bow wood next year also and I've got some chittamwood staves also , about ready for round two on them , my first didn't go well and I know one of the other staves didn't make it ether ( Ralph tried to flip the tips on his and his broke also ) I'll do a build along on it when I get to it , I've got another bow to get back to after this one and I think I'll get in on the OSS's bow trade also .
I'm trying to decide whether or not to put this bow on a form or not when I heat treat , I've got one that I use on Osage .
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Nice fish....Ought to be plenty of skin there....LOL.How thick are skins from those paddle fish.I'd adust that tiller a little before you heat treat it.
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Beadman , they are about the same as a large flathead , you can get pretty rough when skinning them without tearing them , I had to use a knife while skinning it because unlike flathead the spoonbill was tearing the meat up and I didn't want ground fish .
I was wondering if I could get the limbs a little more matched if I used a form while heat treating , and will the heat affect super glue and tight bond II or III .
I need to get my string board out and make a string for it , been a while since I've made a string and I tend to forget which way to twist when I start the second loop ( one of the last ones I done when I twisted the other loop it was opposite the first , I felt kinda bad because it was looking better than most of mine ) and I end up a little short sometimes but I have a nail I hang them on and will them if I need them .
Oh and I have some flathead skins also , I have a few snake skins and my boss is antelope hunting in the panhandle , he said he might bring some more back with him , it would be nice to put some skins on his bow .
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"I was wondering if I could get the limbs a little more matched if I used a form while heat treating , and will the heat affect super glue and tight bond II or III ."
I find that heat-treating on forms makes certain I keep the bow in line. I used to just put a 3-4" block under the handle then only clamp my bow tips down on a long 2X4, but now I'm more precise, especially on wood that I highly value. And that bow of yours will be amazingly beautiful when you rub the finish on.
As to the glue concerns? I've not experienced any trouble there before. I'm guessing you mean the handle area? And Tips?
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The antler tips will be glued on with superglue and I plan using the skins on the full back not just the handle , I have a good form that I ( we , I take it to OJAM and other events ) use , I'll have to shim it up around the pin knots . If it turns out like I think it will look like a laminated bow , slightly purple belly , white sapwood and spoonbill skin on the back ( I've got my fingers crossed ) , should be an eye catcher .
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+1 on the form balancing the limbs after heat treating,and yes your gonna have a purty bow after that for sure.My neighbor just caught a 57.6 pound flat head hear the other day but forgot to keep the skins for me.......LOL.Good luck on the glue and heat deal.
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Nice fish,that is some beautiful wood for sure. :) I would get the right limb matched better and bending more in the center toward the tip before I touched the left anymore if it was me. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Beadman , thanks Pappy .
When I cut the bow out and reduced the limbs the tips moved off center , this wood was cut back in July and I put a heavy coat of shellac on the backs of the staves and I think it held the moisture in ( I need to get it off the other staves to let some moisture out ) or it may have been when I used denatured alcohol to remove the shellac , I had to soak it pretty good to get it off.
Should I go ahead and put it on the form and heat treat and get it lined back up before I go any further , or should I work on the tiller some more? We have a demo at the city for a bunch of kids ( we are giving out 200 rattan bows also ) and its going to be raining , if I heat treat tonight and take it with me to show and maybe get the antler tips on maybe it would help get the moisture back in it .
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the limb on the right looks a little stiff mid limb. nice fish BTW :laugh:
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Poggins.....The right limb as said in the mid.dle some and the left limb a little on the outer third.Then I'd heat treat it.Be patient.Let it equiliberate back to your surrounding humidity.I try to live by a 10 day wait rule myself.You'll have a really nice bow.
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I got the limbs bending better , then I heat treated it yesterday now I just have to wait for the moisture to come back . I also got the skins scraped , the spoonbill skins are a little thicker and tougher than I thought , ran out of time so I put them back in the freezer , I need to get a board that they will fit on and stretch them ( not sure if I can get the oil out of them without drying them , would like to put them on raw if I could without drying them ) , after washing them in a strong dawn wash they didn't smell . Sorry I didn't get any pics , I'll try to get some when I get back to it .
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Yea I'm not surprised the spoonbill skins are thick and tough.I just did some flat head and blue cat skins from 30 to 40 pounds each and they are as thick as deer rawhide.Oily too.I stapled them out after fleshing them good.Sanded both sides after they were dry and wiped them down with denatured alcohol a bunch of times.They don't seem to be oily at all now.Maybe glueing yours on raw might work too.If you do dry them stapled out I think you can reduce the thickness some by sanding.I know if I put these cat fish skins on a bow I'd have to wrap em with gauze for at least a day.
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Cool post. Pretty wood for sure. Nice grain to it. That's a keeper fish! How do you cook it? Are you in Oklahoma?
Cipriano
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The bow has been setting for a little over two weeks after heat treating , I worked on the antler tip overlays last night , I need to get them on and cut my string knocks .
I think I will shorten my tillering string and put the bow back on the tillering tree one more time first , I'll try and get pics when I do . Also working on the osage bow for my supervisor , got it to the short string last night , I'll try and get pics of it also , with one limb almost perfectly clean and the other with dips and twists the tillering is going slow on it ( think I will call it " Two Face " , with one limb straight and with a little reflex and the other snaky twisty and a little deflex to it ).
Yes I'm in Oklahoma , I usually fry mine the same as catfish , I know a guy that smokes his with peach wood . The only problem with spoonbill is they have a layer of dark fatty meat under the skin ( vareies from year to year and where you get them ) if you don't get all o it off you will regret it , gotta be some of the worst tasting stuff around .