Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 12:11:07 pm

Title: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
Pretty sure this is buckthorn or (bluewood),, anyway i want to be sure , if anyone can just look at this grain photo and gi e a yes or no ,, that would be awesome , thanks fellas!
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 12:11:47 pm
One more!
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: BOWMAN53 on September 30, 2013, 12:22:08 pm
no clue lol
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 12:24:38 pm
Lol... figured You wouldnt...lol
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Joec123able on September 30, 2013, 12:26:48 pm
Well I can atleast say it looks to be some type of wood  8)
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 12:31:00 pm
Both very helpful replies  lol    >:(
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Onebowonder on September 30, 2013, 12:48:26 pm
Got any leaves?  ...bark?  ...maybe seeds or such?  Those are more handy to ID a wood species than the grain of the wood itself most times.

...I do not know about 'bluewood', but this does not quite look like the few examples of Buckthorn I've seen.   :-\

OneBow
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 30, 2013, 12:49:51 pm
Looks very buckthorny to me.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: blackhawk on September 30, 2013, 12:55:18 pm
Could u be more vague please  ::) ... leaf pics? Buds? Bark? Anything more than a couple dark poor quality photos of the wood grain  ???

If your referring to rhamnus cathartica I'd say no...it looks all white to me...and European buckthorn(rhamnus cathartica) has a orangish/yellowish-pinkish hued heartwood..
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 12:57:24 pm
I knew Pearlie would know,, little stiff dark green laves ,, it has thorns where the leaves are,  and black dark blue berries right now in texas.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 30, 2013, 12:59:24 pm
Creamy sapwood and fleshy colored heartwood? Poor mans yew.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 01:00:35 pm
This is from a sapling so any special looking characteristics might not show up yet,, very fibrous looking,, looks different from other buckthorn ive seen ,, but the grain looks the same
.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 01:03:29 pm
Not TRYING  to be vague  lol
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Onebowonder on September 30, 2013, 01:04:17 pm
Is this it???

OneBow
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: blackhawk on September 30, 2013, 01:09:41 pm
What species are you referring too..I believe there's a few species trees with a common tongue name of "buckthorn"...just like "ironwood" lots of species of trees have the nickname of iron wood...buckthorn has a few as well....did it have any heartwood at all? I'll look when I get home,but I think there is another species down in Texas that folks call "buckthorn",but it isn't rhamnus cathartica ,which is an invasive species from europe....go find some of the same thing you cut and take pics of the leaves n fruits n bark and post em...until then its all just guesses and no one here on this forum will be able to identify it with 100% confirmation...words are not enough IMHO
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 01:11:26 pm
No,, im just gonna call it buckthorn cause the grain looks fibrous like buckthorn ,,it just doesnt have the same "color"scheme from a stave bow,,im pretty sure it is buckthorn,,just a sapling 6" at its widest,so the two tone look isnt there,,thats whats throwing me.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 01:13:11 pm
Will take pics in a bit..thanks for now!
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: nlb34 on September 30, 2013, 05:43:00 pm
Common buckthorn as I understand will be the first in the spring to have leaves and typically is the last tree to still have leaves in the fall, this is one of the reasons that buckthorn is on the invasive and noxious weeds list.  As for the wood it has a yellowish sapwood and a rich orange heartwood.  It looks like you are showing the belly side of the bow in the handle picture, if it was buckthorn I would expect it to be orange.

Below is a picture of my most recent buckthorn bow which I identified and cut down last fall. Note this bow came from a tree with approx a 3-4" diameter.  If I am mistaken please help correct me.  Thanks,

(http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m426/bheggeseth/Bows/buckthorn_zps18dd4577.jpg)
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 06:28:35 pm
Well heck!!! Doesnt quite look like that!!! Lol  still gonna be a bow for good or ill...lol
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: SLIMBOB on September 30, 2013, 06:52:06 pm
Our Buckthorn here in south Texas is in the Rhamnaceae family, but is different from the European Buckthorn.  It is as described above Condalia Hookeri.  It's a small little scrub for the most part.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Onebowonder on September 30, 2013, 07:00:55 pm
@SlimBob - Do you know if the stuff makes a bow or not?  Is the wood comprable to the European Buckthorn weed they have further north?

OneBow
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 07:05:21 pm
Drying roughed out stave now,, berry pic
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 07:06:26 pm
I know bad berry pic...leaf pic
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 07:07:53 pm
Can yall work with that..or do i need bark now too ..lol....sheeesh!  :P
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Onebowonder on September 30, 2013, 07:17:19 pm
Sure does look like Bluewood!  ...which means, not true Buckthorn.

Sure hope it makes a great bow for you though!

OneBow
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 07:20:15 pm
Well everything ive read says in my area people call em the same thing..this is why my behind is sooo utterly confused...lol...also why im assssssskin.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: SLIMBOB on September 30, 2013, 07:30:03 pm
Onebowonder, don't know the answer to that.  Its all to small and twisted, at least that I've seen.  Grows in the really arid dry soils with little other vegetation around outside of cactus, creosote, cenizo etc..  Interesting question, but its not European Buckthorn Rhamnus Cathartica.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 07:48:17 pm
Alright after more research it IS a TYPE of buckthorn and actually is in the same family,, so for the rest of the build  will be dealt with as if it is buckthorn...the wood is actually a very nice white with cool lookin grain,, looks like the yellow stuff yall are used to seeing except its white.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on September 30, 2013, 08:41:49 pm
Forgot i asked this question a little while ago..lol ..sucks to age..Slimbob answered it ..Condalia Hookeri..a TYPE of buckthorn ..thanks to all!! ..im a goober.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: mikekeswick on October 01, 2013, 04:00:33 am
It's definately NOT European Buckthorn, also known as Blackthorn and simply Sloe tree here. I've made a few bows from it and you haven't got a piece there!
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on October 01, 2013, 11:37:10 am
No i knew it wasnt E Buckthorn...i cant find a pic of a bow made from this stuff ,, but ,, i guess i will document and post ,, im sure American Natives have used it ,maybe more people will start using it.  8)
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Poggins on October 01, 2013, 02:28:23 pm
Looks like chittamwood to me , I have a few staves of it and my first attempt at it blew .
In the TBB IIII they show chittamwood in the same group as buckthorn .
I had trouble ideing the wood also until I took a limb with leaves and seeds to the wildlife department and they told me what it was , almost harder to find a good clean straight peace of it than osage .
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on October 01, 2013, 04:08:06 pm
In my area i can find good clean straight stuff ..i livein a very rural area though ..lots of it in the woodlines.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: Onebowonder on October 01, 2013, 07:04:40 pm
In my area i can find good clean straight stuff ..i livein a very rural area though ..lots of it in the woodlines.

Depending upon how that bow of yours turns out, ... You may be sitting on a gold mine!

OneBow
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: 4dog on October 01, 2013, 10:17:09 pm
I like gold,, and im just waiting for the first stave to dry .roughed out already.
Title: Re: buckthorn???
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 01, 2013, 10:31:30 pm
I think I'm with poggins.  It does look like Chittamwood.  I've never made a bow from it, but I have cut a bunch of it.  Full of sap (it's also known as gumwood) that the natives used for gum.  Very heavy until it dries.  If left out in the weather for any time at all it turns to sawdust quickly due to rapid decay and bugs.  If it's dried properly it might behave differently.  Not saying that's what you got for sure, but it's possible.

Gum Bumelia
Sideroxylon Langinosum