Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: smoke on October 07, 2013, 09:17:54 am

Title: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: smoke on October 07, 2013, 09:17:54 am
Folks, I have a very nice hackberry stave but it is a tad narrow.  66" long but only about 1.3" wide.  I wanted to make a bend through the handle, 60# @ 28 selfie . . . what do you think?  Am I safe with the wood or should I shorten it and put sinew on it?  Your wisdom is appreciated!
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 07, 2013, 09:26:19 am
Id make what you want from it. 64" ttt is good, and if you do nothing else? Temper it and add
3-4" of reflex while your at it. That's my .02 cents
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: Pappy on October 07, 2013, 09:28:01 am
Should be fine,depending on the weight you want,probably ant going to get much more than maybe mid 40's at that length and width.  :)  I would keep that width to at least mid lim. Just be sure it is dry and keep it that way through tillering and go slow,it can go away pretty quick from my expenence. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: Joec123able on October 07, 2013, 09:45:03 am
I don't see why you would put sinew on hackberry it bends like rubber on its own all you have to worry about is its compression strenth And it wanting to take more set on you
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 07, 2013, 09:52:14 am
+1 Pappy.  Keep your width mid limb or more.  45-50 is what I would shoot for.  Temper early at floor tiller, and temper again as the color disappears.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 07, 2013, 09:53:28 am
 Sinew and hackberry work great together, Ive done it.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: blackhawk on October 07, 2013, 10:28:34 am
Me personally I'd run that 1.3" of width out past mid limb to at least 2/3 of the limb before starting to taper...and please do temper it before serious bending..
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: smoke on October 07, 2013, 05:26:32 pm
Thanks guys - your views are, as always, insightful and useful!
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: beetlebailey1977 on October 08, 2013, 09:28:46 pm
Go with it........keep as much of the width as you can.  The 66" is plenty......you could even shorten it up a few.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: Josh B on October 08, 2013, 09:45:48 pm
I don't see why you would put sinew on hackberry it bends like rubber on its own all you have to worry about is its compression strenth And it wanting to take more set on you

I'm hesitant to mention this Joe because there's no way I can put it in words how the physics works, but sinew actually relieves stress on the belly.  It really is magical stuff that does far more than keep the back together.  I hate to leave it like that without being able to explain how it works, but there you have it.  Josh
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 09, 2013, 09:34:04 am
It shifts the neutral plane towards the back of the bow easing up the bellys work load.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: smoke on October 09, 2013, 09:38:41 am
Now you've got me thinking . . . I really would like to get this thing up to 60# and frankly, my skill level is still fairly low.  With that in mind, wouldn't sinew be my best bet?
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 09, 2013, 09:56:07 am
Sinew is never the answer for that in my opinion smoke. If you don't feel you can tiller out a 60# unbacked bow? You probably wont be able to do it backed either. The key to getting a draw weight within a pound or so is getting the floor tiller dead nutz and low bracing the bow early on. Then reduce and tweak down to an exact number you have in mind.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: sweeney3 on October 09, 2013, 10:15:15 am
Drop your weight expectations by 20 pounds.  Mid 40s tops.  But otherwise, yeah, should be fine.  And that will be plenty enough to handle most hunting chores.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: Josh B on October 09, 2013, 10:25:10 am
I have to agree with Pearlie.  Sinewing is a whole other bag of tricks to learn.  It's best to get the basics down on simpler builds first.  If you can keep all your length and width, you should have plenty of wood to do what you want.  I also recommend heat tempering the belly on hackberry.  I was only talking about the sinew in an effort to help Joe understand that there's much more to sinew than what it would seem.  Admittedly, I did a poor job of it.  Lol!  Josh
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 09, 2013, 10:34:57 am
I agree with PD and Gun Doc.  Temper your hackberry and temper your expectations.  Increasing draw weight with sinew is somewhat doable on shorter bows.  You wont see much difference at that length IMO.  Sinew back it if you are set on doing it, no harm in it, but it wont accomplish what you are asking of it.  Mid 40's, tempered belly with a sweet tiller, hard to beat.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: smoke on October 09, 2013, 10:48:53 am
Great responses.  Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: rossfactor on October 09, 2013, 02:11:24 pm
I haven't worked with Hackberry, so take this with a big grain of salt. But I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get 60# out of a 66" 1.3 wide bend through the handle bow on most decent white-woods.

Admittedly the width is on the low end, but if you have the bow bending through the handle and you keep it 1.3 wide out past mid limb, you're going to relieve lot of inner limb stress. And 66 is plenty of length.  I think its a matter of tillering, if you nail the tiller, my gut tells me 60# is doable with those specs. No sinew needed.

Gabe
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 09, 2013, 03:02:09 pm
Id agree Gabe, providing its tempered. Ive made several hackberrys both ways and its astonishing how much less wood it takes when tempered compared to raw wood.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: Danzn Bar on October 09, 2013, 09:47:21 pm
Great post! good information thanks for the info. I'm eyeballing a hackberry that just might make a stave or two next spring.
Thanx
DBar
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: BowEd on October 10, 2013, 10:03:19 am
Me too Danzn Bar.I'm a sinewing fool......LOL.I've got good looking hackberry all around me here.That's all I need.I just choose to fool with hickory.I've got myself covered up with bows' progresses' all around me here.
I think with a heat treatment and carrying width a little past midlimb you should be fine.I'll quote Tim Bakers' hypothesis.I know he's not God but here it is.A 2" wide 65" bow will get you the draw weight of it's density.Now that's not considering heat treatment though.Now 1.3 width is only 65% of that.65% of 60# is 40# with heat treatment you might get close to 50# with 2" of set back.Sorry if this confuses you but in the end make your bow tiller it spot on and you should get close to what you want.Even if it's 55#.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: BowEd on October 10, 2013, 10:12:03 am
Oh and sinewing will increase draw weight no doubt.It all depends on how you do it and the quality of work you do.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: BowEd on October 10, 2013, 10:37:39 am
Correction actually 65% of 53[hackberrys density] would only be about a 35# bow.
Title: Re: Hackberry fans: Advice please
Post by: Parnell on October 10, 2013, 12:41:01 pm
It's all been said so I'll just say this...I love the smell of toasting hackberry.  Good luck.