Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: bubbles on October 10, 2013, 11:38:06 pm
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Hi Guys,
I've never gone deer hunting before, but I'm looking to go for my first time this year, with a bow and set of arrows I made myself. 50# at 26".
Anyways, my wife (who is desperately trying to get me not to hunt) says she was talking to her friend whose dad makes and hunts with traditional bows. For him, apparently most of the time a traditional bow isn't enough to kill a deer and he has to finish the job with a knife.
Does this sound right? As far as I understood, if you're putting an arrow in the heart/lung area, that should be enough to do the job. Obviously you have to give the time (1/2 hour - 1hour) after you shoot. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
Mike.
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Fact is............. a hole in both lungs...........leads to not breathing therefore, meat in the freezer.
Sorry for being so blunt.....but if you have never deer hunted (gun or bow) understand shot placement is everything. learn where the heart lung area is looking at every angle of the critter your after. If you put an arrow through that area ..... you will have meat in the freezer.
DBar
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If you've never done it before, I can't emphasise how important it is that you find someone to go with you that knows what they are doing. From scouting to butchering ,there is a lot to know in between. If the other guy is "Finishing things off with a knife", I would guess why he is chasing around an animal that is still alive? A well placed shot is the only one to take. If it is a good shot the animal will die in very short order ,before you go after it (1 hour later) They should be dying within 100 yards of where you shoot it. If the shot doesn't go as planned , you need to know what and where to look. A book could be written on the subject and not give you the insight that a few informative outings will with a mentor. Don't make the hunting world look bad with a poorly planned ,or uneducated hunt that ends badly for the animal ,and possibly you. Most of the work comes after the shot. Surely there are some friends or co- workers that hunt. Talk to her friends Dad. Maybe he was misinterpreted?.?.? Maybe his experienced small talk was falling on inexperienced ears? Couldn't hurt to talk to him.
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Every animal in the world has been killed by a wood bow at one time or another. If the archer/hunter is good his wood bow will be as effective as any other hunting weapon. If you can get the arrow where it is supposed to go the deer is dead in a few seconds.
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Well said lostarrow,couldn't agree more,as for the knife thing,I have killed a bunch with a stick and never needed a knife except to field dress one, I have needed another arrow a few times ;) :) but 1 arrow in the heart lung area will do it I assure you. Unless I have made a questionable shot I never give them an hour either. They are dead in a few seconds. :) I have heard this from others from time to time and I will tell them, ??? just think about it, nothing can live without lungs or a heart so your job is to eliminate them, if you do that then you got no problems. ;) :)
Pappy
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Yeah, you guys have re-confirmed what I thought before. I don't know the guy in question, so I'm not sure how well he shoots and what kind of shots he is taking. I am going out with someone with many years of deer hunting experience (not the guys who is chasing deer with knives), and I have made every effort to learn and practice as much as I can beforehand. That is why some guy saying "with a traditional bow most of the time I need to finish them off with a knife" really went against everything I've read and seen on this site - in regards to proper shot placement and shooting withing your comfortable accuracy range, etc. Also, it led to a big argument since this has now made my wife even more against hunting. That and apparently yesterday some guys shot a sacred albino moose in nova scotia. Oh well, such is life.
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Check out my post in the 2013 hunting pictures page. That buck was "stone" dead in well under a minute. It didn't go 50 yards after the shot.
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No way in the world do I approach a wounded deer with a knife. Those animals are crazy powerful, even hurt. Ive never had to finish a deer off, they have all been dead when I got there. If I had to? Another arrow is heading his way from 20 feet, not a knife from arms length.
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No way in the world do I approach a wounded deer with a knife. Those animals are crazy powerful, even hurt. Ive never had to finish a deer off, they have all been dead when I got there. If I had to? Another arrow is heading his way from 20 feet, not a knife from arms length.
Amen to that. Buddy had a bad spine shot on a doe years ago. Long story short he lost the knife and had the ever living crap beat out of him before she finally bled out. Called my old man for help dragging it out.
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Same same. I used stone points for the first time this year with a yew selfbow. Shot was at 25 yards. Both lungs popped. The elk coughed a mist of blood into the air and collapsed 40 yards from the shot.
Every animal in the world has been killed by a wood bow at one time or another. If the archer/hunter is good his wood bow will be as effective as any other hunting weapon. If you can get the arrow where it is supposed to go the deer is dead in a few seconds.
100% fact :)
Lots of ppl think that the bigger the hole the faster the animal goes down. I see em out there with there 30-06's blowing holes in there meat. When a 223 or a .22 is all you need.
Shot placement is key. The only time an animal took 30 mins to die was when my arrow was just a hair too far back and punched the liver... Still died but it didn't take no hour.
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That is more than enough draw weight. Just shot one last week with a 42# selfbow. Go get em!
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Native people live by the bow for 1000's of years.
I guess that says it all.
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...and primitive people have lived by the bow for at least 12,000 years!
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All that's said here is true.Been hunting since I was 5 with something or another.Since getting into making natural material bows 4 years ago I've shot 7 deer.No record but a lot of fun anyway.I'll add one thng to this conversation.Enjoy the goings on out there while your hunting.Slow down listen,take notice of things.It's their world.Conform to it.That's what it's all about too because successful hunts happen a small percentage of the time put into one.
I used to campaign coonhounds in the hunts and it was a blast for 25 years.A life style.Gone 250 nights a year in Iowa.40,000 miles a year.It was like a job on top of my day job.Been in the woods most my life.It caused me to about get burned out from hunting my hounds.
I now deer hunt when I feel like it when I have an open window of time.I don't pressure myself all that much in the notion that I've got to get a deer,I've got to get a deer.Although I relish the chance......LOL.Then at the end of the season if I get one I'm relieved that I got one.No No No.For me I won't pressure myelf into disappointment.If it happens it happens.Learn from the animals.Be selective of your shots.
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Also it could be you may have misinterperated your friends intention of using a kinife.Bleeding out good does let the meat taste better.Although there is a bucket of blood inside the diaphram area after a well placed shot anyway.I never in my life have came to a deer after it is down and cut it's throat.There is'nt any sense to it.
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Not like a bow is the most proven weapon in human history or anything ::)
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Anti hunters are usually anti hunters because they don't really understand hunting. I shot two deer this year with primitive equipment and both were down with one shot within seconds. An arrow through the vitals is a arrow through the vitals no matter how fast it is moving.
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That and apparently yesterday some guys shot a sacred albino moose in nova scotia.
Sacred to a small part of a larger population. A genetic anamoly, but not unknown to a biologist or geneticist. A unique trophy to yet another subset of the population. Fact is, the animal was legally harvested in a fair chase hunt. The hunters issued a written apology and surrendered the animal to the people that claimed offence.
Do they now issue an apology to PETA and surrender whatever hunting tags they have left? This defines the idea of a slippery slope in many ways.
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Yeah, I totally agree with you JW. And all of you guys. Maybe Ill get a deer to stand infront of me this season. Here's hopin'
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You will bubbles.Deers' senses are at least 10 times more sensitive than ours.Wind direction is a major concern and practice practice practice shooting from a stand and the ground.Fine tune your equipment.Shoot from different positions of holding your bow in your bow hand.Shoot the bow enough so that it is like an extension of your arm as one pointing right at the deer.The one thing predictable about deer is that they will be unpredictable.It's way different than just target shooting.
99% of the bleeding hearts out there that oppose hunting have never had a family of skunks or ground hogs living under their home believe me.They've never subsistance lived or really understood the natural rythum of life in my opinion.It's a charge and a humble thankful feeling type result taking game for my benefit.Pitting your wits against a fine tuned wild deer with primitive equipment homemade equipment is the ultimate until something better comes along.
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I've only ever finished off one animal with a knife. It was a young doe that had been gutshot (by someone else who couldn't finish it themselves) with a 30-06. Even with a big rifle its all about shot placement.
Somewhat sarcastically I'm impressed that he is able to shoot deer with any regularity that require a knife to finish off. With my experience you either find them dead or you don't find them. Sounds to me like misinformation heard by an uneducated person that was twisted to prove their point. No offense to her of course. Hit the deer in the right spot and everything should work itself out. I shot a doe last year that never made it 20yds.
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I had to finish one off with a hammer but never a knife. I hit a big doe with my Flintlock in the neck and thought she was done for untill I started to load here in my Gator. Halfway up she found some life and went to kicking the ever living crap out of me. I finally got my hands on a claw hammer I had in the back and stopped that nonsense. I still have scars on both forearms where she worked me over. And I've never figured out why someone would cut a deer's throat after the heart quit pumping?
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I had to finish one off with a hammer but never a knife. I hit a big doe with my Flintlock in the neck and thought she was done for untill I started to load here in my Gator. Halfway up she found some life and went to kicking the ever living crap out of me. I finally got my hands on a claw hammer I had in the back and stopped that nonsense. I still have scars on both forearms where she worked me over. And I've never figured out why someone would cut a deer's throat after the heart quit pumping?
Same reason his wife cuts the legs off the turkey and puts them in another pan to roast in the oven at Thanksgiving. Momma done it that way. She asks Momma, and is told Granny done it that way. She asks Gran' and finds out Gran's roaster was tiny and the dad-gum turkey won't fit, so she whacks off the legs and roasts 'em separately. This is called Tradition! Folks have all kinds of goofy traditions surrounding hunting and processing game. I've had guys literally screaming at me that I was ruining good antelope by not skinning immediately. After a dozen or so times of leaving the hide on both bucks and does, I have yet to eat a bite of strong flavored antelope. More folks claim you gotta cut off certain glands on legs, some claim you gotta hang by the head end or the butt end, and all kinds of silly superstitious claims.
I think that is where the throat cutting stuff comes from. Either someone once saw a deer get it's throat cut to finish it off or somebody's family passes down a silly tradition based on a misunderstanding.
My personal silly tradition is to get the critter's body cooled AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, and that is not negotiable.
Shoot the bow enough so that it is like an extension of your arm as one pointing right at the deer.
Ed just etched a real fact in stone right there!
Pitting your wits against a fine tuned wild deer with primitive equipment homemade equipment is the ultimate until something better comes along.
I started out with modern guns, progressed to a caplock muzzleloader and then a flintlock. Along came bows. I am eyeing atlatls even as we speak. Lord help me I am de-evolving! Some day I might just wander the plains nekkid as an ape, following big predators around hoping to snatch a mouthful of something left over after they have hunted!!!
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I believe they used to cut hogs throats and bleed em out. When I killed my first boar many years ago I called my dad to come help get it out. It was in the 300# range. He told me they used to do that when they butchered hogs growing up so I did. I just did like I was told. I agree with you, old traditions get passed along and sometimes transferred over to different situations (from butchering farm hogs to deer hunting).
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Hogs have to bleed out to make good pork, its white meat. Chickens get their noodles cut off for the same reason. Beef on the other hand needs all its blood for good beef, as its a red meat. That's why hogs get slit and beef get a prong to the forehead swirl!
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I had to finish one off with a hammer but never a knife. I hit a big doe with my Flintlock in the neck and thought she was done for untill I started to load here in my Gator. Halfway up she found some life and went to kicking the ever living crap out of me. I finally got my hands on a claw hammer I had in the back and stopped that nonsense. I still have scars on both forearms where she worked me over. And I've never figured out why someone would cut a deer's throat after the heart quit pumping?
That's hilarious Eddie! ;D
About as bad as this fellow that hit a bear with his car, loaded it into his trunk, took it to a conservation officer, and when they opened the trunk, the bear 'bout ate 'em both up!
My boy found out the hard way that you don't gut a live deer :o! It kicked him clear over the mountain when he stuck her with his knife. I may have been a little derelict in my duties in mentioning that little tidbit! But in the end, he got his first deer!
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Chickens get their noodles cut off for the same reason.
Now you are pulling our legs, Pearlie! They don't do that or else they couldn't make chicken noodle soup!
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Beadman I can see where your comeing from.
But I'm still a bit harder driven for now when it comes to gobblers and bucks.
But I'm slowly leaning towards your ways.
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Yes no reasonable person is chasing living deer with a knife, at least twice. haha By all means get the heck out there and hunt em with your bow. I strongly 2nd the suggestion to find a mentor to lessen the learning curve. Practice hard, hunt smart, and be patient. Only take perfect shots and be willing to pass up less than ideal ones. having said that let's be realistic, if you hunt enough you will wound deer. it sucks but we all go through it usually more earlier in our hunting education. understand it will happen and learn from it. Sometimes you do everything as perfectly as possible but it happens. Best not to mention those times to your wife. ;) Best of luck man!