Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Don Case on October 17, 2013, 01:44:50 pm
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I've noticed that people are heat treating at various stages during building. If you heat the bow in the early stages isn't there a chance that you will scrape off a lot of the treated wood? At the least it seems that you would be leaving the treated part uneven. I don't even have a seasoned stave yet so this is a very hypothetical question.
Thanks
Don
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I usually bring a bow to floor tiller which is about 15# over target weight and then put the bow in a cawl to adjust limbs and heat treat. Sometimes I have to reheat when almost finished but not usually. I also never toast a limb when I heat treat anymore. I simply run my heat gun from one end of the limb to the other at a steady pace until the limb just starts to darken but not in a toasty darken it seems to chemicaly darken. I spend about 15 min on each limb with the heat gun I am guessing.
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i usually heat treat after tillering(youll probably need to tiller a little bit after) and before shooting in but thats just me, like you said everyone does it at different stages.
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It depends on the wood I use. For whitewoods I do like Badger does and heat treat at floor tiller then later just before finishin. Woods like osage I'll heat treat when I'm making corrections with heat but usually not later in the process.
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I heat treat every wood at the roughed out blank, low brace, full brace, and finished product.
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That clears it up Don! Its proof that there really is no wrong way. All of these guys do it quite differently and they feel it works for them, so jump in feet first.
I heat temper once at floor tiller and never again. Not to say I haven't treated a bow twice in the past, just not anymore. The closer I am to brace when I temper it the more lasting the effects, that's my spin.
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Well I heat treat my bows before I even split the staves so all you guys are wrong! >:D
Just kidding ;), I've done a couple of the above methods and they seemed to work well. I've only done it in a few bows but I normally do it shortly after floor tillering.
These guys know what they are doing. Just don't light the wood on fire and you should be alright. :D
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Well I heat treat my bows before I even split the staves so all you guys are wrong! >:D
I don't recall where I read this but Native Americans would many times harvest toasted trees left over from forest fires for bows. I believe it was ash they preferred but took what the found.
I recently ht a little vine maple that took more set than I wanted furring short brace. And it came back during tiller. Maybe scraped off the HT? I heat treated again during final tiller and removed the set for good.
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Thanks guys
It's nice to know that there is something about bowmaking that I probably can't screw up, but I'll do my best.
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Don, I just finished a hazelnut that I treated twice. Once past floor tiller I heat treated it and let it sit a week. It definately stiffened up I got it close to done and most of the toasted wood was gone so I did it again. I didn't notice much difference the second time.
Not sure if it matters but the second time I forgot to use what I used the first time which was beeswax/oil to coat the wood during treating. So this will drive me nuts now and I won't be happy until I treat a few bows with wax and no wax to see if it makes a difference. But I just thought I'd mention my latest experience.
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I do about the same as Badger.
Pappy
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What is the importance of heat treating the bow to begin with? I have never heard of this and now it seems like everyone is doing it.
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Caveman,
Theoretically it strengthens the belly side of the bow, bringing into a closer strength relation to the back of the bow so that the two are more balanced.......vs. having the belly wood weaker, in general, than the back and having the bow therefore take a cast robbing set.
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Can you heat treat a laminate bow? I may have to do this and I am wondering if this would screw with the glue
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Yes, it will screw up the glue, so do not heat treat a laminated bow.
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Thanks guys
It's nice to know that there is something about bowmaking that I probably can't screw up, but I'll do my best.
I know a good way to screw it up...
Make a jig to hold the heat gun, move it along every 4 minutes or so... half way through, go indoors and start watching an interesting TV program (ok I know that's a bit far fetched.. it's mostly cr4p on TV ::)) When you return you'll have a nicely burnt limb.
One of those kitchen timers is a great aid to avoid that scenario.
Nice pic of heat treating in progress, using my jig, here:-
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/multitasking.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/multitasking.html)
Del
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I do about the same as Badger, also. Except HopHornbeam, I heat it till it starts to smell good then move on to another section. When I'm heat treating osage it is usually because I'm coming in under weight and I want to try to tighten it up and gain a few pounds or I have one limb or recurve that wants to keep pulling out.
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Is there a recommended wattage on the heat gun for this purpose?
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I use hot, and go by smell and visual observation.
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What I really meant Mullett was: when you buy a heat gun to heat treat your bow, is there a recommended wattage to purchase? What size? Thanks.
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No, Sam, it just needs to be a heat gun and not something like a hair dryer, of course. I think it might be important to get the heat as deep into the wood as possible without burning the outside, so I 'slow cook' my bow's belly over dry heat for at least a half hour and then go at it with the heat gun.
You don't want the treatment to take too long so your heat gun just needs to be hot enough to burn the wood if it gets too close.
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Do most of you heat treat every bow made.. ..?
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Of course not. Laminated bows, osage, black locust and yew don't require heat treatment.
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Of course not. Laminated bows, osage, black locust and yew don't require heat treatment.
Osage and BL can both benefit from heat treating, though. Not sure about yew, and I've only done a couple osage, but every once in a while I'll want an extra couple of pounds in a BL bow.
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Are there any woods that it hurts to heat treat? I was under the impression that heat treating hardens all wood. Does it harden some too much?
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Apart from dense tropical woods, such as ipé or jatoba, it does not hurt wood to heat treat it. (You can 'boil the oils' out of dense tropical woods and cause drying checks.) Some woods just benefit more from a heat treatment than others. Sure, you CAN heat treat yew, osage or black locust without ill effects, but the benefit is just lower than with most whitewoods.
Bow101 asked if I heat treat every bow I make. I simply replied 'no', based on the woods I work with most of the times. If I made only hazel bows, my reply would be 'yes'.
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Got it. Thanks
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Of course not. Laminated bows, osage, black locust and yew don't require heat treatment.
:laugh: Laminated bows no; I double that.
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No bow requires it. Yew benefits from it also, sometimes greatly. Sometimes tempering does not work. Trapping serves a similar purpose.
To do nothing might result in some set. Some people like a little set.
So there are options, and combos of options, in order to achieve one's desires and depending on one's particular needs. Capish?
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I've never tried it but, I don't think I'd heat treat Eastern Red Cedar. I've had too many blow while tillering when I thought the wood was too dry.
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Of course not. Laminated bows, osage, black locust and yew don't require heat treatment.
I heat treat all of my Osage and black locust for corrections in limbs and to add reflex. I'll break out the steam tube and correct all in one clamping in some cases. Still haven't found the perfect stave ;)
Tracy
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I have been looking for 25 years Tracy and I haven't either. ;) :) I use heat on most bows I build,but to say they are heat treated like is explained in BB or on here to some extent I don't.I just heat them on a form for straighting and adding reflex till as Eddie said they look right and smell very good. :) I do use it on most woods but it does seem to help white wood a lot more in my experience. :)
Pappy
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What I really meant Mullett was: when you buy a heat gun to heat treat your bow, is there a recommended wattage to purchase? What size? Thanks.
Perhaps it doesn't matter as much where/when the temperature is warm but up here when my shop is cold anything under 1500 watts won't cut it
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What I really meant Mullett was: when you buy a heat gun to heat treat your bow, is there a recommended wattage to purchase? What size? Thanks.
Sorry, I've never paid attention to what the Wattage is. I have a High and Low setting. I use low when I'm drinking a beer and taking my time and not paying a lot of attention. I use the high when I'm trying to bring the wood up to temperature fast and don't have a lot of time to work or, I'm treating the whole belly. And then I'm constantly moveing the gun.