Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Atlatlista on October 26, 2013, 09:59:16 pm
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How accurate are you guys with your warbows at say a FITA style 122cm target (the sort used in the Victorian York and Hereford rounds) at various distance (say out to 100m)? I know that you're looking at other factors, but I'm trying to get a sense of where these sorts of rolling looses and full 32 inch draws leave you in terms of target accuracy.
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i honestly cant say..however in november 10th i am taking part in some clout shooting for the first time. i will be using 90 cm round targets and using a 110 pound longbow/warbow..i will give you a report if you like then.
i will say i wont be emplying a rolling loose..just a simple draw and arc.
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A rolling loose is purely for distance, not accuracy. The rolling loose imparts maximum velocity and oomph to an arrow when done properly, while allowing the full draw to come fairly easily. For target shooting you'd never use it.
The biggest hurdle for target shooting a warbow is arrow spine, I find. By the time you're shooting 120#, the arrows need to be half an inch thick, and you just can't sensibly spine those. Well, that's not true, you can, but most don't! It's also very hard to be able to hang on to consistency when using big bows, so for target shooting after a few arrows you're running out of steam.
As far as I'm aware, most warbow shooters use much lighter bows (70 - 90lb) for any comp shooting, and go up to full weight for distance, clout etc. That's what I do, anyway!
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Ooh, also, a 32" draw makes any aiming system totally useless, as if you use point of aim or gap styles, once you're right over the arrow it just doesn't work. It's instinctive or nothing! That's not to say it's inaccurate, instinctive is unbeatable done right, but it's often very hard for a normal target archer used to a Victorian form to become accurate with a full 32" draw. Unless you shoot instinctively anyway.
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There's only really one secret to accuracy with a warbow and heavy shafts.....loads and loads of good old fashioned practise to get that action really grooved into your muscle memory ;) IMHO Too many people out there jumping from warbow to horsebow to light target bow, target to field, to clout, etc, etc wondering why they're not getting any better ::)....ya gotta specialise people ;D
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There's only really one secret to accuracy with a warbow and heavy shafts.....loads and loads of good old fashioned practise to get that action really grooved into your muscle memory ;) IMHO Too many people out there jumping from warbow to horsebow to light target bow, target to field, to clout, etc, etc wondering why they're not getting any better ::)....ya gotta specialise people ;D
Yeah, I've specialized as a competition longbow archer, in weights that aren't unreasonable for hunting or killing an unarmored man, but far below even the low end of the Mary Rose war bows. I have to admit though, I'm somewhat inspired by Archeress' ability to draw those heavy bows. I wasn't sure where a girl would realistically max out, and now that I see she can shoot over 100 pounds, I'm pretty sure I could to if I put the effort into it. The question is - do I have the desire to make all that effort happen? And then, icing on the cake, I'd want to be accurate on man-sized targets out to eighty yards with it.
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There's only really one secret to accuracy with a warbow and heavy shafts.....loads and loads of good old fashioned practise to get that action really grooved into your muscle memory ;) IMHO Too many people out there jumping from warbow to horsebow to light target bow, target to field, to clout, etc, etc wondering why they're not getting any better ::)....ya gotta specialise people ;D
Yeah, I've specialized as a competition longbow archer, in weights that aren't unreasonable for hunting or killing an unarmored man, but far below even the low end of the Mary Rose war bows. I have to admit though, I'm somewhat inspired by Archeress' ability to draw those heavy bows. I wasn't sure where a girl would realistically max out, and now that I see she can shoot over 100 pounds, I'm pretty sure I could to if I put the effort into it. The question is - do I have the desire to make all that effort happen? And then, icing on the cake, I'd want to be accurate on man-sized targets out to eighty yards with it.
"Where a girl would max out"......irrelevant, where an "individual" would max out is more like it. Most of the men in my club couldn't hope to emulate Kel's ability with a heavy bow. Partly down to life's "tough titty" genetic lottery, but so much you can do if you're determined and persevere...a la our friend Kel ;)
IMHO after a period of time in target archery, anyone would need a major change of mindset, not to mention a totally different technique, to "get on top"of a heavy warbow.....I know that was certainly true in my case. Going from rock steady plinking mode and relative relaxation with a fairly low poundage bow, to suddenly using every once of strength you can muster just to draw the bugger back to the ear, is a major game changer...initially! :o Take heart though, just when you think you can't improve in draw weight, a bit of intelligent research will lead you to the anatomically correct stance and mechanic and you'll jump up another 20lb in no time flat!.....again, certainly true in my case.
TTFN,
John ;)
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I keep watching that video of Joe Gibbs shooting the 170lber making it look like a 45lb target bow. No rolling loose, no strain or effort.... it's like he's been given a secret that nobody else has :P
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I went over to meet Dave Weller of the EWBS this morning Will and he told me Joe's secret.......guess what........it's practise!......and he's been practising since he was 8 years old!!! :o ;)
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8 years.... right. So when I'm... 33 I'll be comfortable with 170. Sounds alright. I can wait.
By the way, are you going to the EWBS mini shoot at the NLHF?
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Going to the NLHF and TORM, just down the road, so maybe see you there and put a face to a name eh fellah? ;)
Cheers,
John
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Yeah would be good! What's TORM?
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Great answers there for you Atla'. until i have la 127 at full draw then the only bow i have for clout is the 110. obviously wont get any distance records so wont even try..yes as i said..just a simple arc to loose will suffice...i have seen those do the rolling loose in that vid (fior the love of the english bow) and you can see they are trying to muster extra distance. for me, clout is going to be my first time in a couple weeks so its all about experimentation...i simply have not had the room to do anything oother than horizontal targets at no more than 45 metres
Now where would a girl max out?. dunno but i think i took a guy called max out once. long time ago..another story. For me i am thinking 140 will be maxed out...not sure why but perhaps age and bone density may have something to do with it...i have left my run too late i think..oh if only i had this interest in my 20's..ahh to dream.
I know what is said about technique and strength and percentages but you still need to be strong to do this. I have genetics on my side perhaps..great bone structure and a history of kayaking and weightlifting..yes i know weightlifting wont make you a great warbow archer but it goes a bit towards it. My technique is not always the best as i have much to learn ..i do ok but with correct technique i could no doubt have my beast back to full 32 inch draw
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Great answers there for you Atla'. until i have la 127 at full draw then the only bow i have for clout is the 110. obviously wont get any distance records so wont even try..yes as i said..just a simple arc to loose will suffice...i have seen those do the rolling loose in that vid (fior the love of the english bow) and you can see they are trying to muster extra distance. for me, clout is going to be my first time in a couple weeks so its all about experimentation...i simply have not had the room to do anything oother than horizontal targets at no more than 45 metres
Now where would a girl max out?. dunno but i think i took a guy called max out once. long time ago..another story. For me i am thinking 140 will be maxed out...not sure why but perhaps age and bone density may have something to do with it...i have left my run too late i think..oh if only i had this interest in my 20's..ahh to dream.
I know what is said about technique and strength and percentages but you still need to be strong to do this. I have genetics on my side perhaps..great bone structure and a history of kayaking and weightlifting..yes i know weightlifting wont make you a great warbow archer but it goes a bit towards it. My technique is not always the best as i have much to learn ..i do ok but with correct technique i could no doubt have my beast back to full 32 inch draw
I'm on the high strength end for the ladies I know, but I don't want to injure anything with heavy weight that will keep me from shooting for a while. I enjoy doing it every day way too much for that. But I'm young enough that I think it's something reasonable to attempt at some point.
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To put my technique into perspective, no holds barred.
At 80 to 110 pound bows i have a pretty good technique that i am comfortable with.
due to the sheer cost of yew bows being made for me i cant just keep going up in 5 pound increments. hence my big bloody yew bow. so my technique with this yew bow is ghastly. i am over compensating because of the sheer weight..trying to put too much effort into it and the end result is my body going backwards as i draw the string backwards. not good at all. however i have started to put into practice some basic hints provided by Mr G. Carney esquire who managed to pick apart about 10 points of my "technique" i was angry and upset at first..but thought deeply about his comments..I also have a new friend in Ian coote and a couple others chatting to me regular and i like thier advice.
the hardest thing for me and others here in australia is that we have no teachers..not like in england..we are all self taught and use you tube a lot. so any guidance from the old dart is music to my ears.
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who knows why i do what i do...i have been told i am single bloody minded though which is true...maybe i have the spirit of warbow archers from the 100 years war in my veins..just kidding...actually my family history is english and welsh so maybe there is a DNA link there.
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Yeah would be good! What's TORM?
Hey Will, TORM is "The original reenactors market" it's huge, everything medieval from a sallet to a wooden spoon and everything in between. In a master stroke of organisation it's being held about a mile and a half down the same road on the same weekend as the NLHF! Go figure ::) We'll probably do a half day at each......I'm going on the Saturday, you?
John ;)
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Not sure yet! TORM sounds ace, didn't even know about it! I'll need to sort transport and accommodation as it's a looong way north for me ;)
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Here's the secret to target shooting with warbows. Ipe arrows. 11/32" ipe arrows run at an average spine of 93# for me.
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Wow, that's really interesting. I might want to try an ipe arrow, but in like 5/16" or 9/32" or something. That would give me something narrow but dense for long range FITA shoots with trad equipment. Where do you get ipe arrows?
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I make them. Cut the shafts from boards I get from a local wood lots deck making pile (same place I get the wood for my bows).
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I make them. Cut the shafts from boards I get from a local wood lots deck making pile (same place I get the wood for my bows).
Got any eye candy photos of them?
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These are finished and fletched as well as some raw shafts.
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Sweet! Those looks really pretty. I want to try some hardwood shafting at some point. I need arrows that have some durability to them for stumping and the like. POC just shatters if you look at it funny.
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Try birch. They're indestructible. I use them for 100lb+ warbows both in 1/2" and 3/8" diameters. Not had one break yet! Plus they're totally traditional, as they were found on the Mary Rose.
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Try birch. They're indestructible. I use them for 100lb+ warbows both in 1/2" and 3/8" diameters. Not had one break yet! Plus they're totally traditional, as they were found on the Mary Rose.
Awesome! I know where to get laminated birch shafts. Do you also use ordinary birch? Is it easy to keep straight? Do you just mill the arrows from planks?
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I've only used birch straight from a log. No idea if laminated birch would be strong enough for a warbow? Certainly the traditional way is to split half inch blanks from a log, and turn them on a shooting board, tapered from 1/2" to 3/8".
They smell good too.
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I had an ipe arrow do a full pass through on a deer and get lost in a swamp bog. Found it a MONTH later. Stripped it, recrested it, fletched it, put a new head on, and dropped it back in the quiver....
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i honestly cant say..however in november 10th i am taking part in some clout shooting for the first time. i will be using 90 cm round targets and using a 110 pound longbow/warbow..i will give you a report if you like then.
i will say i wont be emplying a rolling loose..just a simple draw and arc.
How did this turn out accuracy-wise?