Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: JackCrafty on November 14, 2013, 02:08:44 pm
-
There's been some discussion going on lately about using small arrowheads for hunting. This topic comes around every hunting season. And there's a good article in the Magazine about the use of small arrowheads entitled, "Are you shooting arrowheads or atlatl heads?"
Well, here's some of my bird points that I've made lately to give you an idea of the size and weight of the real ones. They are all based on actual artifacts. The foreshafts are educated guesses based on drawings. The number written on the foreshafts are the total weight of the arrowhead+foreshaft.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_p0024_zpsd50bd0f0.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/DSC_p0024_zpsd50bd0f0.jpg.html)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_p0026_zpsf26fe252.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/DSC_p0026_zpsf26fe252.jpg.html)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_p0028_zps6ec55e82.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/DSC_p0028_zps6ec55e82.jpg.html)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_p0029_zps365b79c0.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/DSC_p0029_zps365b79c0.jpg.html)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_p0032_zpsb795b5ac.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/DSC_p0032_zpsb795b5ac.jpg.html)
-
I know there has been discussion on it before with what states allow, and I clearly understand the effectiveness of stone hunting points and their penetration, but, at what width do you think that bird points begin to lose their effectiveness where it could be justifiable by the state? Do people think there is a justifiable width needed?
I mean, no one is going hunting with a field point...so thoughts?
-
In the state of Oklahoma the min. width is 7/8 ". so that is what we must go by.
Knapper
-
pretty points
-
That's some nice work as always Patrick. It's 7/8 in TX too legally but I believe they excluded the barb restriction. As far as minimum ethical or whatever size and weight I would have to say aim small.
-
A great representation of hunting points! I prefer mine to be about 7/8- 1" wide. If the bow is in the 40's in weight, and law allows, I recommend 3/4" wide points. here is a picture of my stone points kill display. The heaviest one is 106gr and the lightest is about 40gr. There is a good average of about 80 grains per point. These were on 450 - 580 grain arrows coming off of 50-60# bows. they are all at least 7/8 wide but none over 1 1/8" wide.
-
IMO, a good minimum would be a 1/8" projection to either side of the arrow shaft. So, if your arrow shaft is 1/4" wide where it is hafted, like most ancient arrow points, the minimum width of the stone arrowhead would be 1/2".
Awesome display!! :)
-
Thanks! sry didn't mean to hijack your thread, just got caught up in adding into the point size discussion. So you enjoyed the article then I hope?
-
I always get a grin when people call my smaller points "bird points". I tell them to look at the points that the natives used to bring down bison. Nice points Patrick ,what wood do you use for the foreshafts?. Cool display Ryan
Bone
-
Ryan, I really liked the article. Great job, man.
Roger, I use whatever I've got on hand. Mostly poverty weed (Roosevelt weed). I like to use shoots that had lots of leaves/stems so that the knots show on the wood. I like the rustic look. I've used dowels but that got a kinda boring.
-
Has that article been published, yet? That display is really cool Ryan. I'd bet that Anthropologist on here, Atlatlista... I think, would be super interested.
-
thanks guys. yeah th earticle is in the latest mag, you prolly have not gotten a hard copy yet. yeah I saw his request I will send him a message
-
Nice work Patrtick..... as usual.
Good article, I was just about to haft my first point and started thinking, "man, that looks too small". It matches one of the Cahokias in size in my Overstreet so I guess I will use it.
How long and how do you season the poverty weed? Now that I know what it's called, I see it everywhere.
Thanks,
Matt
-
I bought some 70 grain field points to practice with for next year. Most of the points I make are about 65 grains. There was enough difference in point weight with 125 grain broadheads that it slightly effected arrow flight.
Patrick
-
thanks guys. yeah th earticle is in the latest mag, you prolly have not gotten a hard copy yet. yeah I saw his request I will send him a message
Think it may be a she, buddy. Don't quote me on it, though.
-
Yes, a she. She got in touch with me when I was in Spain about making her a Jade point.
-
well what do ya know... a she. that's almost refreshing ain't it? I retract my previous "him" comment
-
Matt, poverty weed is very forgiving when it comes to seasoning. You can force dry it, peeled or unpeeled, in less that 3 months. You can hand straighten during the drying process without heat. Of course, use heat to straighten when dry.
I've left unpeeled shoots in a hot car. Not sure if the peeled shoots would be OK in a hot car, though. But normal summer heat is not a problem. I seal the ends with titebond.
-
thanks Patrick, I'm going to go cut some today.....
-
Those points look exceptionally nice, especially when mounted on those foreshafts and ready to hunt. Look deadly as well as beautiful to me, very nice.
-
You make some really cool points Patrick,love um. Cool display Ryan. :)
Pappy
-
Real nice stuff as usual ! Hey I was looking at your Facebook page and saw you had used some kind of red ocre to paint your arrow shafts with what is that stuff and where can I find it?
-
Elijah, the "red ocre" is iron oxide. I mix it with hide glue, fish glue, or Titebond glue. You can buy it as a powder form art supply stores.
-
Nice post Patrick! Good stuff.
-
Badly, Pappy, Jon, thanks for the compliments! :)
-
I know there has been discussion on it before with what states allow, and I clearly understand the effectiveness of stone hunting points and their penetration, but, at what width do you think that bird points begin to lose their effectiveness where it could be justifiable by the state? Do people think there is a justifiable width needed?
I mean, no one is going hunting with a field point...so thoughts?
Some of these "bird points" are tested on deer by billy berger on youtube. penetration is fine.
I'm not a "anti-big brother" type but the minimum cutting widths is regulation to try and ensure humane and quick death of the animal. Historicaly I think many of these were used on "large game".
Same with minimum draw weights. I get the intent but I'm not certain it's an effective regulation. In Iowa you can use what ever you want.
-
Let's all move to Iowa. ;D
-
Just hit a deer in Angelo. $$$ repairs to truck, seems like you can possess any and all parts of road killed deer in IA. Lets go!
-
Road kill is OK too? I'm there. :)
-
Those little birdpoints really are lethal on big game. I've done several penetration tests with them on freshly killed deer and never had any problem with penetration. I've seen a lot in museums, and examined a number of arrows in the Smithsonian. Most stone points were quite small. Even metal trade points were quite small compared to today's arrowheads. Except for a set of Sioux arrows that were made of split hickory. They had large, beefy iron points on them, but then the heavy hickory would have carried a hell of a lot of energy and woulda had a lot of punch on an enemy or big game.
-
Poverty Weed..... Hummmm.
Must investigate those "unknowns" that have started showing up.
We have not yet figured out who they are....
David
-
Billy, your work with small arrowheads is awesome. I've read all your articles. ;D
Poverty weed is literally everywhere. I cut pieces that are much thicker than I need, so that I can sand the minor "zig-zags" out on the belt sander. You can try and straighten these out but it takes more time.
-
All of the territory maps show that it Does Not grow in Alabama.
But we got something here that resembles that stuff.
The maps are made by humans. The maps can be wrong. ;)
David
-
Cut some and see. If it dries really hard then it should work. I think the seeds have been spread along the highway system, so that's where it would be, I imagine.
-
Off work for the next four days.
Will cut some and post a few photos of it.
Let you guys have a look see.
David
-
Cool!