Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: BowSlayer on November 17, 2013, 02:45:06 pm
-
does a warbow need to have a rounded belly? or could a 100 lb flatbow be called a warbow? just curious. also what is the lightest draw weigt a warbow can be?
-
Most warbows typically do have flat bellies. It is common for someone buying one from a bowyer to specify if you want a flat one or a round one. Believe it or not, there were actually a couple typical pyramid tapered flatbows found on the mary rose, ( although no one every likes to mention them for some reason). The heaviest warbow to date measured around 130" nock to nock, and pulled 450 or so lbs at 38 inches, shot by steve stratton, and recorded in the genesis book of world records on sept 23 1965.
>:D >:D >:D
Yup spot on.
It's amazing that Steve was able to pull it the full 38", he's quite a small guy.
I think the reason nobody brings up the pyramid bows on the MR is just because they were clearly too heavy and don't conform to the accepted projected draw weight of bows from that period.
-
Oh you removed the post. You rat. Quoted forever though...
-
hahah, I figured someone would quote me before I deleted it. Thats what I get for being a douche. :)
Edit: To answer your question Bowslayer, some woods will tend to like a more squarish cross section I hear, but I think the lingo around here is "warbow" is short for english warbow, which are not flatbows. I think the english warbow society's rule is 75@ 32" is the lowest maybe, but don't quote me on that or anything (looking at you will, ;D)
-
Who, me? O:)
To be honest, by the time you hit warbow weights the belly gets a lot flatter than the light target weight longbows you normally see. Very rarely you get a d-shaped belly, as most are rectangular or galleon section to keep the stress and chrysals to a minimum along the belly.
The 5/8 rule is ignored with warbows as well. In essence (in a very simple, laypersons point of view) a warbow is just a hunk of timber which can bend without breaking at massive poundage. How it looks when it's done doesn't matter in terms of shape - the wood will dictate what shape the belly has to be.
-
there is a guy who goes to my club who shoots a 87# warbow i think. although ive only seen pics of him shooting it. i might try make a heavy draw weight pyramid flatbow one day to hang on the wall. not to use. i dunno
p.s thanks for the replys ;)
-
Will...
Do you have any reference for these pyramid bows from the Mary Rose?
I was under the impression that they were all catalogued in Weapons of Warre, but I haven't come across them. Mind there is a lot of data in there. Or are they to be found on the grassy knoll in the posession of badge man?
Maybe it's a confusion of terms?
The main point is, few if any bows from Mary Rose have a 'high arched D section' of a Victorian longbow, most are nearer square or round. Even for those described as D section, it's a very squreish D, and there is little difference between them and the 'slab sided'.
And, yes, I have been in the store room and handled all the bows... nothing there that I'd call 'pyramid'....
Or have those bows been removed and locked up with the Ark of the Covenant in area 51 (shhhh... you ain't seen me? Roight?)
Del
-
Del... it were a joke, like.
Read the quote I took from TooManyKnots again ;)
-
Errrr. I can't find the "Joke", and one should be wary of saying stuff that could be believed by newbies or could confuse a cat.
Maybe the original quote has been removed.
the problem is that info' like that is now hanging there with no context...
Next thing you know some academic twit has picked it up on a google search and it ends up in print*.
We need to be careful with our knowledge and our history.
(Not meaning to sound stuffy....and I did see the multiple >:D emoticons alongside the record bow.....)
* I know this is true, as I've searched for stuff and then found it referencing my own work.
E.G. You make a 'mediaeval bowyers tool' and post a pic on t'web.
You search a few days later and find images of this authentic bowyers tool!.. create your own history.
Anyone want to buy Lord Nelson's pocket crossbow? ... (Aroogah... aroogah... that's a joke and hopefull an obvious one?)
Del
(And if Toomanyknots doesn't behave we should all PM him our spare knots ;) )
-
lol
-
See what you've done?! You got me in trouble now :(
-
You can both stay behind after school and write out 100 times "I must not tease the cat".
It's that or the naughty step... well maybe the comfy chair :o
Del
-
In flight shooting we have an English longbow class. Regardless of weight they have to conform to the 5/8 rule as well as the rounded belly and d cross section. One year mark St Louis had built a 140# yew bow for Heavybows and they disqualified it saying the belly was too flat or not rounded enough. I would like to see a cut off point on when English longbows become war bows and no longer need to conform to the same rules. How do you guys feel about this? I would think about 75# would be a maximum for an English long bow and past that point use a war bow class with its own set of rules.
-
In flight shooting we have an English longbow class. Regardless of weight they have to conform to the 5/8 rule as well as the rounded belly and d cross section. One year mark St Louis had built a 140# yew bow for Heavybows and they disqualified it saying the belly was too flat or not rounded enough. I would like to see a cut off point on when English longbows become war bows and no longer need to conform to the same rules. How do you guys feel about this? I would think about 75# would be a maximum for an English long bow and past that point use a war bow class with its own set of rules.
That sounds like a great idea. This already kinda exists... with the EWBS and CWBS, but is not part of the flight shooting community.
-
few if any bows from Mary Rose have a 'high arched D section' of a Victorian longbow, most are nearer square or round. Even for those described as D section, it's a very squreish D, and there is little difference between them and the 'slab sided'.
I've had to fix twist in a good amount of bows lately from screwy glue ups probably, and the cross sections on those ended up being a high d-section. But it would of been quite squarish/flatish if I hadn't had to remove a bunch of wood from one side of the bow to get it to stop twisting.
-
In flight shooting we have an English longbow class. Regardless of weight they have to conform to the 5/8 rule as well as the rounded belly and d cross section. One year mark St Louis had built a 140# yew bow for Heavybows and they disqualified it saying the belly was too flat or not rounded enough. I would like to see a cut off point on when English longbows become war bows and no longer need to conform to the same rules. How do you guys feel about this? I would think about 75# would be a maximum for an English long bow and past that point use a war bow class with its own set of rules.
He must have shown great self restraint in not punching someone.... I daresay the idiots making the judgement weren't bowyers of his stature.
The 5/8 rule is fine, as you would have to go out of your way to breach it.
It is just meaningless to have rules like 'D section' with no clearly defined limits or measurement method. Especially for self bows.
It's exactly this sort of stuff that makes me shun joining more societies and shooting in more competitions.
Warbows should have different rules.
I daresay you can't make a warbow with a D belly from many woods, and doubtless the 100# Elm and 13# Yew I've just made and half the Mary Rose bows would get disqualified!
A simple test like "A straight edge must not be able to sit flat across the belly of the bow at any point" would probably suffice, maybe adding that the edges of the belly must be no sharper than a 3mm radius... or some such. That could be easilly checked by running a gauge along the edges.
That way you can have a square section as long as you round the corners and then slightly curve the belly, which is pretty much like some of the MR bows.
Oh! they should have fancy horn nocks with couloured ribbons and braided handles too (joke)
Del
-
Haha, it would be funny if you had happened to of been on the battlefield of Crecy, and had happened to send a nice heavy shaft threw a frenchmans heart, only to hear him hollow back at ya "Sorry but your cross section is a bit too square, it doesn't count!". That would of been disappointing.
-
You can both stay behind after school and write out 100 times "I must not tease the cat".
It's that or the naughty step... well maybe the comfy chair :o
Del
or a squirrel for that matter >:( :laugh: :P
nice descussion guys.
"Warbows should have different rules.
I daresay you can't make a warbow with a D belly from many woods, and doubtless the 100# Elm and 13# Yew I've just made and half the Mary Rose bows would get disqualified!
A simple test like "A straight edge must not be able to sit flat across the belly of the bow at any point" would probably suffice, maybe adding that the edges of the belly must be no sharper than a 3mm radius... or some such. That could be easilly checked by running a gauge along the edges."
i think you hit the nail on the head there del ;)