Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: usmcsgt on December 04, 2013, 09:34:10 pm
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Hello Gents,
I am a disabled Marine war vet. I have several disabilities and some that affect my ability to make bows and arrows and I am looking to see what other bowyers do that helps them with their handicaps. I have arthritis in both hands and shoulders. I also have shattered vertebrae that didn't heal right so, that also limits my abilities some.
Basically what happened lately was, I have been going to the VA for treatment and therapy and have been told that I need to find another way/method to go about making bows, making arrows and flint knapping. I prefer to use hand tools. As most of you know, there is a lot of repetitive motion involved.
The parts of me that are affected most are my shoulders, elbows and hands. It's mostly arthiritis and tendinitis that I have issues with.
This also affects my ability to shoot as well and I guess learning proper form is another important thing.
Thanks guys!
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Learn how to make all wood lam bows. A lot of the tiller can be done with tapered lams like fiberglass bows. Mostly power tools are used. So less stress on your joints
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Learn how to make all wood lam bows. A lot of the tiller can be done with tapered lams like fiberglass bows. Mostly power tools are used. So less stress on your joints
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I am not sure if excersize is bad or good for what you have. Most likely I would think you want to try and keep things mving as long as you can. maybe start off and just take as much time as you need. 1 side benefit you may get is that making bows has kind of an addictive nature to it and can stimulate some endorfins. great natural pain killer and some feel it is helpful for artheritis.
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1). Thank You For Your Service to this Great Country of Ours.
2). I to am a Disabled Vet with many of the same problems. I have been trying to figure out some of the same issues. So far have just come up with working until the pain gets a bit much to handle, stopping at that point, and continuing on when the condition allows.
3). good luck with your endeavors. If You figure something out, feel free to pass it along. I will do the same.
Rev. Pete Gallant, 1SG, US Army...22 Years
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Well here is my suggestion, BUT I mention this more because of your disibilities than to sugest this as a start for a new bowyer....asumming you are one????...Anyhow, with careful planing and learning to use the tools (power tools) you can make pyramid bows without much tillering, or you can use this for stave bows CAREFULLY....
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-12-in-60-grit-zirconia-flap-disc-60751.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-12-angle-grinder-60625.html
Good luck, thanks for your service.
VMB
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Thank you all for your replies. Badger, I actually met you at the Sept 2008 meet up in Pasadena. My Docs say excercise is good but, to avoid repetitive motion as much as possible. I also do all of these things (Bow making, etc) as a form of therapy for my PTSD and it does help.
Blaflair: I have done a few laminated bows (BBI, BBO, BBH) and will eventually get back to those again. Thank you for the suggestion.
Hey Mohawk, I been making bows since 2006 when I got out. I was ok at first and usually pushed myself until it was painful. Keep in mind that I take morphine and other pain meds while I do all this. I usually need to ice my shoulders and elbows. Btw, I am 31 years old. It seems like some things are catching up with me and my Doctors/therapist are telling me to find ways to do things that will cause less strain. I will see what I can find. It would be nice to find other vets to do this with. I am also an active member of the Wounded Warrior Project.
Brian: how's it going? I'm still working on that pacific dogwood stave I got from you. I've been making bows for several years now. I originally started 24 years ago and got real serious about it in 2006. I have used bandsaws and belt sanders in the past and like using them but, I prefer hand tools like drawknives, farrier's rasp and scrapers. It all depends what wood I am working on too.
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One thing I would suggest is to stick with softer woods, like Eastern Red Cedar, and Yew, that is if you can get your hands on some through trades or ebay, etc, which ain't really easy. Some white woods can be easier to work though too, like hackberry. Eastern Red Cedar is a dream to work with bladed tools though, it cuts like butter. Haven't worked yew myself, but I have heard the same.
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Yew is SOOOOOOO soft. I shaped a whole bow out of a big stave with a Feriers rasp, no big deal
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Do you have a bandsaw and a bench top belt sander? If you don't, you might think about getting them. You can rough out a bow on the saw and then shape and tiller it on the sander. I used to do almost all of my tillering on a belt sander. Just remember to switch to a finer grit belt as you get further along with the tillering process. A good palm sander would probably help also.
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Welcome and thank you for your service! I was thinking about this a bit and wonder if you have considered a couple things. First what has been said already about softer woods. I could hook ya up with a real clean ERC staves if you want for shipping cost (cleaner than the knotty thing I am working on recent post by far). And second, what about sinewing bows? I would think that being able to make smaller dimension bows due to sinew backing could reduce scraping, rasping etc.... Don't know how you feel about the sinew but it could be therapeutic also? Might be a real B processing it though.
And one more thought. I am an RN in a hospital and we use aromatherapy essential oils for anxiety and pain relief. I thought it was kinda hokie at first but the patients really swear by it after we get em to try it and it has been proven scientifically. Gotta get the good stuff though ;) Pure Lavender seems best and also Sweet Marjoram. Some people like Mandarin oil best. I work in a substance abuse unit and tolerances are high to meds for a lot of them there but this seems a great and simple addition to pain treatment. If you want any more info on it let me know and I'll scan ya some of the stuff from my work. Best wishes. Marco DuBois
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I haven't thought much about softer woods lately. I haven't had the best luck in getting good eastern red cedar or Yew. I have worked ERC once but it was full of knots and didn't want to be a bow.
I love sinew backing bows. I used to collect sinew from our guys at church back when I lived in Minnesota. I even got 40 deer hides in one winter, so you could imagine how much sinew I had. They thought I was crazy.
One of the projects I want to do is a sinew backed ERC or Juniper bow (60" ish long with 2" wide limbs). I actually want to make one like Ed Scott does. He makes some real fine sinew backed bows.
Osage outlaw: I do not have my bandsaw or bend sander with me. I do have a 2"x72" coote knife grinder but, I just use it for steel. It doesn't do so well with bows. It's not a variable speed motor.
DuBois: Thank you for the kind offer. I will have to take you up on that offer. I still have enough sinew left to do another bow. ;)
I agree that essential oils sound weird for therapy but, I know that can really help. I've been through the ringer enough times that I am almost willing to try anything...
I have a few surgeries coming up real soon too. Hopefully after I get those done, some things will improve. I do have one disease that causes arthiritis and hopefully I will get that dealt with before spring comes.
I'm very thankful for you guys! I'm hoping to figure out some techniques to help people with disabilities/impairments, make bows and arrows. Again, I prefer hand tools. But, we will see how long that last! :)
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Thank you all for your replies. Badger, I actually met you at the Sept 2008 meet up in Pasadena. My Docs say excercise is good but, to avoid repetitive motion as much as possible. I also do all of these things (Bow making, etc) as a form of therapy for my PTSD and it does help.
Blaflair: I have done a few laminated bows (BBI, BBO, BBH) and will eventually get back to those again. Thank you for the suggestion.
Hey Mohawk, I been making bows since 2006 when I got out. I was ok at first and usually pushed myself until it was painful. Keep in mind that I take morphine and other pain meds while I do all this. I usually need to ice my shoulders and elbows. Btw, I am 31 years old. It seems like some things are catching up with me and my Doctors/therapist are telling me to find ways to do things that will cause less strain. I will see what I can find. It would be nice to find other vets to do this with. I am also an active member of the Wounded Warrior Project.
Brian: how's it going? I'm still working on that pacific dogwood stave I got from you. I've been making bows for several years now. I originally started 24 years ago and got real serious about it in 2006. I have used bandsaws and belt sanders in the past and like using them but, I prefer hand tools like drawknives, farrier's rasp and scrapers. It all depends what wood I am working on too.
Usmcstg,
Well, hope you can find some help, sucks not being able to do the things you like without pain. I have bone spurs in both hips, and shoulders....they are not getting any better... :-\ Just keep going...only choice ya got! :) Looking forward to seeing the dogwood. ;)
VMB
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There is one thing that I do want to contribute. I noticed that my rasps and files were getting dull and I thought about buying new ones. But, I had just read a thread on saw mill creek forums about this company in Paramount, CA that sharpens files. So I got all mine together and sent them out to them. After about a week, I got them back. They were packaged really well and it seemed like they put 3 in 1 oil on each of the files and rasps I sent out. I felt the teeth and they were very sharp. Actually sharper than new.
I noticed that this made work a lot easier for me. It was very affordable for me as well. The companies name is Boggs. I got a few more items I am going to des out to them. One of them being a Shinto rasp that they said they could sharpen.
Hopefully this little bit of information can help someone out.
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Hey Brian,
I am sorry to hear that. That's got to be tough to deal with. Right now I have bone in my shoulders digging into the muscles on both shoulders. They say they will give me some shots in the joint to help and physical therapy should improve my condition.
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The only thing I could think of was learn how to be very precise at removing wood using a sharp and high quality spoke shave and work with knot free wood. That should significantly reduce the amount of repetitive work associated with filing and scraping.
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Avoiding those hard woods is a good idea. Hazel is prob' much easier to get than Yew, it's fairly soft and a joy to work.
Maybe instead of flint for knapping try chalk ;) I did see some nice bone and antler points somewhere too.
Del
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I feel for you brother! If we changed the names it could be me writing this script. Although not a disabled vet, I am a veteran with an arthritic disability similar to yours. One can't imagine the suffering of arthritis victims unless their experience it themselves.
Back to your question. Cut back or lose the pain meds. In a few years your mental capacity will diminish to where you can't or won't want to engage in anything.
Make work easier, get a bandsaw. Use good shape tools. Super hardwoods will work you less than soft woods with the right tools.
I love flint knapping myself. But I can't do that anymore. So I make steel trade points instead.
So, if you can't set or lie down for long like myself, might as well say busy. I think you found the right hobby to help with that.
Best of luck..........Art
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Thank you for your service !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A good band-saw will do wonders , once you get good at using it you can come off it at or near floor tiller !
Have you tried dry heat from infrared and stretching exercises before working on projects !
Take care and drink lots of water !
Praying for you, Guy
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I appreciate this post, what a good thing to bring up. Also, thank you for your service. I do not have issues with arthritis but I did lose vision and most of my left eye at 20 years old in a firework explosion that I didn't see coming. Kaboom! I knew from the start that I'd never be able to hit a curve ball the way I used to, but that doesn't stop me from still going to the batting cages. Sounds like you've got some great suggestions. My thought is embrace some power tool use but that doesn't mean you have to stop using hand tools completely. Just use them how and when you can.
We do the best with what we have. Right?
All the best to you and all of you who serve,
Stephen Parnell
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Power tools dont get up on the own and make bows, they are just tools at the end of the day. I do most of my bow making at night when the little lad has gone to sleep so I have no chance of turning on power tools.
Happy tillering ;)
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Thank you for your service sir
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Thank you all for the kind words and helpful advice. I think a good bandsaw would be a good investment. I will look at a good 14" bandsaw from grizzly or look on craigslist.
I have a few different drawknives. Some a real sharp for shaping and profiling and others for chasing rings. I also have the bow scraper that David Robinson sells. That helps with tillering some.
I haven't had so much luck with the standard Stanley spoke shave. I'm not sure why.
Like I mentioned earlier, sharp files and rasps do help a lot.
I also have nerves that are impinged at my elbows, so it's not comfortable to keep my elbows bent for long or my little fingers go numb and it feels like my elbows are on fire. Plus, using a draw knife for long periods of time is also tough. But, I'm working on exercises for that.
I find myself spending more time planning out my bows than before. I try to be more precise than I used to. I don't just fly through wood like I used to.
Knapping chalk? That's a new one. I actually consider obsidian and glass pretty easy to work and not so tough on the joints to work.
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Power tools dont get up on the own and make bows, they are just tools at the end of the day. I do most of my bow making at night when the little lad has gone to sleep so I have no chance of turning on power tools.
Happy tillering ;)
Good one Dwardo! I am not trying to be a purist or anything, I really just prefer the feel of hand tools. But, that may change over time.
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Brian, than you for your service.
I think a band saw and good quality belt sander would help.
Jawge
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Another thing to add would be, to learn proper techniques and methods of and for each tool that you are using. That is one of the reason why I like to watch other bowyers at work.
Having a good work bench setup is another thing that is helpful. I read Stim Wilcox's book on bow making and saw a few cool tricks he does as well as several articles I've read in PA magazine.
- David
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Hey Sarge, I don't know what you've been through, but I have a lot of chronic health problems, and like some of the other guys have said power tools really do help to ease the physical burden. I love hand tools too, but reserve them for finer work. If you go down that route you also need to have good dust control, and a decent dust mask as lots of bow woods have nasty dust. You don't want to add to your health problems with chest infections, and sinus trouble.
I guess you already know this, but pace yourself. Bowmaking takes a lot of concentration, especially tillering. It makes you tense, which is a problem if you have shoulder or back pain, or arthritis, your posture slumps and you get in the habit of working this way and it puts even more strain on the joints.
What do your physical therapists say about your arthritis and impingement? A good therapist should really be able to help with that, identify the cause and to relieve tension with exercise/therapy. Not all therapist are equal. I have been to some which are downright useless, to those which are a great help. Doctors seem to be good at treating the symptoms, but not always so good at identifying the cause of the symptom and really addressing the cause.
I wish you luck, never give up when you have a bad day, but do give yourself at break at these times. Its all about waiting out the storm, until you have a good day.
Hamish
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Not much that I can add that others haven't said already, however I do have a couple suggestions. The power tool thing can help somewhat, but I think since you got your rasps sharpened that should help a lot. Something to consider about using the hand tools would be to handcraft some larger handles for your rasps so that you don't have to have your fingers gripping in such a tight fist to hold onto the regular size handle. The bowyers rasp that Dean Torges sells also has a second handle attached to the front end. You might consider drilling holes through the front end of your rasps so you can mount a second handle to the front of the rasp. Using the bigger handles will be a little more ergonomic. Also, some folks take a card scraper and mount in a lengthwise handle that holds the scraper by means of some wingnuts to add tension. The long handle gives you something to hold onto that is much easier than holding the small scraper by itself. Also, if you're going to be experiencing difficulty in drawing the bow because of the arthritis in your hands, you might consider adapting your bows to use a release aid like the compound shooters use.
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Hey KiltedCelt,
Thank you for the suggestions. I will look into the larger handles. I had the torges rasp but, I ended up giving it to my little brother.
The bow scraper that David Robinson from Medicine bow woods is like you are describing.
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Ever think of putting a wrist strap on your hand tool handles so that most of the force is transferred to your wrist and not all on your fingers? Think of it like the wrist strap on the trigger mechanism for a compound bow. I bet that would do absolute wonders for your fingers.
Also I should add, I have a bulging disk in my back frm the Navy that gives me absolute hell sometimes. I cant even sit down into my easy chair without it giving me fits at times. Washing dishes for more than 10 min is a no-go for me due to the counter height. To remedy this problem At the work bench I built a very large 4x8 work table that is almost chest high. I dont bend or stoop in the least bit while working on bows anymore. And I can lean against it with comfort when I really need to. Give a try to that also if you can.
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Hi there
There is a guy here in the uk that uses a small angle grinder with a sanding disc on it. I've used it, takes a while to get used to (can remove a lot of wood VERY quickly) and created a HUGE amount of dust but with practice can be a very efficient way to remove wood. But like you I prefer rasps!
Cheers
Matt