Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on December 15, 2013, 06:07:45 pm
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I see quite a bit of talk about muzzleloaders lately and I was wondering if anyone here has ever tried making their own Black Powder. I used to like to tinker with guns a lot about 35 years ago and one of the things I did was make some Black Powder, the components were more easily available back then. What I made may not have been as efficient as what you buy but it certainly worked well enough. I used it in guns and even made some small rockets using some as a propellant. You can't find saltpeter up here anymore so that put a stop to that.
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I see quite a bit of talk about muzzleloaders lately and I was wondering if anyone here has ever tried making their own Black Powder. I used to like to tinker with guns a lot about 35 years ago and one of the things I did was make some Black Powder, the components were more easily available back then. What I made may not have been as efficient as what you buy but it certainly worked well enough. I used it in guns and even made some small rockets using some as a propellant. You can't find saltpeter up here anymore so that put a stop to that.
Check your laws about it first. Since it is an explosive, you may end up doing time in Gitmo!
It's very easy to compound a batch of blackpowder, but please stay away from any recipe you find that involves using power tools or does not have you compounding the material while WET. Wet mixing is the only safe way to make cake. And take a page from E.I. DuPont and do it where the inevitable blast will hurt no one but yourself.
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Lots of youtube videos Marc. Seems to be an awful lot of info out there about making your own. Not seen or heard anything about it being illegal here. But you guys may have different laws..............Art
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There are no laws against having explosives up here but you need a permit to transport it. I always made small batches of the stuff and even though I never read anything about wet mixing at the time I found, by experiment, that it was the easiest method of mixing the 3 components. To old to want to bother with that anymore but it was fun at the time.
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The brand name escapes me, but there is a stump remover that is 90 something percent salt peter.... Works great! A simple way to make a burning powder from it is to just add sugar. The ratios escape me but I know 50 50 works. It burns very hot. No clue if its good for guns, but I used to use it for rocket fuel, called it rocket candy.
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Probably got this all wrong but I think salt Peter is sodium nitrate and that is used in making preserved meats....
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Actually its Potassium nitrate, chemical symbol, Kno3, and I sure wouldnt eat any of THAT meat, I like the part of my body it affects waaaaaaay to much... so does my wife for that mater.
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Sodium nitrate was once called "chili" salt peter, not the same as potassium nitrate used in black powder.
Last time I made black powder I was 13. My best friend and I made a crude BP pistol which blew up and killed him. Best to buy your black powder in a can and not fool with making it yourself.
One idiot on Utube is making his own black powder and shooting it in a gun he made with an aluminum conduit barrel. I related my story to him and he claimed to know what he was doing, was not taking any chances and brushed aside my words of warning.
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A friend of mine for 35 years ago was big into blackpowder and the whole long hunter era. He made custom flint locks and even had an original style rifling drill/lathe that was turned by hand. I remember him telling me black powder was easy to make. Use stale urine (potassium nitrate, I believe) and willow ash. I never tried it or watched him do it. Those are just my recollections.
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From what I recal about urine, letting it dry leaves a white powder ring along the side of the container. Collect that andththat's the nitrate you need.
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My recipe: dried chicken droppings (High in sulfur and amonium nitrate[salt peter]), and finely ground willow charcoal (The more porous willow makes one of the best coal bases for black powder) mix it 30/70 and grind it very slowly and very carefully in a non metal and non sparking container.
do flash tests to get the right mixture and don't blow your @$$ off I'm not responsible if you do :P
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My dad and two friends did when they where early teens. They made a "gun" as well. My dads buddy Tom now has a 1/2" hex head stamp on his skull, he is alive and well! The bolt was screwed in one end to create a breech. It didn't hold, but the black powder they made went boom.
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My dad and two friends did when they where early teens. They made a "gun" as well. My dads buddy Tom now has a 1/2" hex head stamp on his skull, he is alive and well! The bolt was screwed in one end to create a breech. It didn't hold, but the black powder they made went boom.
Hmm, yes. Home made guns and scars. I know a bit about that
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Hmm, yes. Home made guns and scars. I know a bit about that
Me to Marc
One thing I know for sure about black powder is the price has went up a bit
I used to get it for $1.65 a pound and it came in a wooden barrel , you had to take your own container or they would give it to you in a paper bag
I bought my first front loader for $20. it came with a sack of powder and a bag of shot , the man behind the counter said to send my dad by and he would let him carry the caps for me , Dad was kinda upset he had to drive all the way over there to get them , I think he figured if a fellow would walk 20 mile to buy a gun he was old enough to have it on his own !
Man times have changed !
Guy
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I used to regularly see containers of Saltpeter at horse tack shops at the race track not too many years ago.
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I am a "do it with my own hands" kinda person, but seems this might be a good line not to cross. ::)
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+1 Scott .....I'm with ya there
DBar
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The brand name escapes me, but there is a stump remover that is 90 something percent salt peter.... Works great! A simple way to make a burning powder from it is to just add sugar. The ratios escape me but I know 50 50 works. It burns very hot. No clue if its good for guns, but I used to use it for rocket fuel, called it rocket candy.
That is called Sodium Clorate, it is a potent weedkiller.
Did you intentionally reference "rocket boys"...
it is mentioned there.
Works better if you mix 30 sugar and 70 clorate.
According to Homer Hickman's rocket boys.
it would probably only work for a rifle since it burns, not detonates.
never have tried making things that can go boom in a firey way... Don't want to cross that line. Generally you get hurt eventually.
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Generally you get hurt eventually.
DuPont built his powderworks on the banks of the river. Three very solid stone and cement walls with one flimsy wooden wall and a flimsy ceiling. So when they went boom, and they all did at some time, they could quickly replace the missing parts and be back to work quickly. He also was the first to offer "benefits" to employees. If you died working for him, your widow had housing for life along with a small stipend, and your kids got free education and housing to age 18. And you got a "trip across the river".
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Sounds like a hellova nice guy. And yes, I referenced rocket boys. I read the book long time ago and couldn't remember the name. I did have fun with the rocket candy mix though.
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Sounds like a hellova nice guy. And yes, I referenced rocket boys. I read the book long time ago and couldn't remember the name. I did have fun with the rocket candy mix though.
Where do you buy that stuff? Or do you get a three finger discount???
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :laugh:
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I got mine from my high school chemistry teacher. And then had the cops called on me for making explosives at school... took months of counseling before I convinced the school I was only making a rocket and not a bomb. The teacher lost his job unfortunately... gadda be careful, I almost became a felon because of a book I read and a nice chemistry teacher.
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I made some a couple of years. Works fine in an old 32 gauge smoothe bore i have. I used spectracide stump remover ( 100% potasium nitrate) willow charcoal i made and sulfer from drug store. Mixed wet then grated thru wire mesh onto plastic sheet to dry. Never thought about checking laws as i figured if it is legal to buy it should be legal to make as long not selling it. Also with homemade thats not pressed it has less bang per volume than commercial made bp. If i remember right 80 grains by volume of my comercial made bp weighed 80 grains on my scale and 80 grains by volume of my homemade wighed between 60 and 65 grains on my scale.
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My homemade BP was certainly good enough to hunt with. I remember it would drive a 165 grain cast bullet in my 303 Brit through 4" of Spruce
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JW...maybe you've been to the Hagley Museum in my
hometown, Wilmington, Delaware. The DuPonts got
their start there on the Brandywine River. It's funny
you mention the three walls thing because I remember
that very fact made a strong impression on me there on
a school field trip when I was a young lad.
Japbow.
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A few years ago, they had a couple explosions at the Goex powder plant. Even the experts have accidents, so I would be cautious making your own powder.
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Small batches is key...
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Better yet- grind it remotely. There are remote-operation things... hook one to a ball mill. Problem solved...
I do find the method of testing used by hickman as hilarious. throw it in the water heater... and see how big of a boom it makes ;)
I got the book from my English teacher.
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I only made a few batches... about 15 pounds in total but I prefer to just buy powder most of the time for legality and safeties sake lol
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wait... is it illegal to make your own gunpowder?
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JW...maybe you've been to the Hagley Museum in my
hometown, Wilmington, Delaware. The DuPonts got
their start there on the Brandywine River. It's funny
you mention the three walls thing because I remember
that very fact made a strong impression on me there on
a school field trip when I was a young lad.
Japbow.
I'vae never been to the museum, but it is on the list of places I would love to see. Some years back I got a great book on the history of gunpowder, the section on the DuPonts was very fascinating.
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According to the msds the stump remover compound at lowes is 100% potassium nitrate. I bought some and will give it a try just for the fun of it.
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According to the msds the stump remover compound at lowes is 100% potassium nitrate. I bought some and will give it a try just for the fun of it.
Good to know
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Had this bottle since 1970'ish.....
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Like it was said before, always mix it wet! Static electricity is what set off the DuPont's explosions . At least that is what they have attributed them to. Could have been any number of causes, but that is definitely the number one on the lists. Especially on a cold morning. I think they worked bare foot, in the buildings. As for mixtures,or formulas, the Fox Fire series of books has a recipe for black powder. On an outdoor special one time a long time ago, about the early to mid seventies, there was a story about and old guy in California, who was living in the California mountains, and it showed the home he built in the side of a mountain, among the rocks, and how, made a rock gate, with home forged hinges, and marbles for bearings, and bear grease, which he got from bears he had killed with his home made muzzle loaders, and using his own home made black powder. He told the mixture he used, and when he mixed it, instead of using water, he used urine, and he got the best results from using alder charcoal. He had experimented with various types of willow, and other wood, but he said the Alder gave him the best results. There used to be people whose job it was, to go around at night, and collect the trays put in out houses, to collect the poop and such, (night soil) and dump it in a wagon, and take it back to the place where it would be processed to leach the potassium nitrate out of it. They would make a more or less hay manger, supported by upright poles, and filled with hay or straw, and underneath this would be a trough to catch the drippings. They would dump the night soil on top of the straw, and then pour water over it. The potassium nitrate would leach out and collect on the straw, and in the trough beneath, When dry the little crystals of potassium nitrate would be gathered and then crushed, and then mixed with the charcoal and sulfur. I remember reading in an OLD book that was about hunting, woods lore, and such, and it had a big caution about shaking a can of powder to see how much was in it. It warned about static electricity setting the powder off! That is why commercial powder now uses a coating of graphite, to prevent that. I was never successful in the rocket projects I tried. They either blew up, which was just as satisfying, or just fell over, and fizzled, and burned up. Then I got idea to just use a Co2 cartridge instead of powder. There were lots of possibilities for that, that I won't go into here. NSA and all, you know...... ::) 8)We're being watched 8) In the Army I was a Cryptographic clerk, and we were always told to be careful what we said to others at the end of our transmissions. As the NSA was peeking. Their shoulder patch was a lightening bolt grasped by a golden claw, and black feathered leg. We used to call them the "Lightening fast Chicken @#%$#%s." ! Has to do with sex And all that sort of nasty stuff soldiers hear now and then...... ::) ;D ;D
Any who, do be careful, with experimenting, if you do make some, make small batches, and keep each separate, in non plastic or metal containers, that would conduct static electricity, and then after you have the amount you need, combine it. Potassium Nitrate is very hydrating, as it will draw moisture from the air. But a humid atmosphere keeps static electricity down. ;) Just be careful I once showed a Friend of mine how to make Co2 cartridge ...... uh entertainment, items, like depth charges we used to make with the old and better M80's, and he was with some Friends, and they were lighting them, and I had told him absolutely no fuse shorter than 6 inches, and as soon as it is lit throw it as far as you can! Well they said all was going well till he lit one, and just stared at it. He says even to this day, he doesn't know why he didn't throw it, even when his Friends were yelling at him to throw it. Well he has part of a thumb, and various lengths of other fingers, and a piece of the metal cartridge lodged near his heart! Black Powder is an explosive! Be it a poor one, nonetheless it has the potential to be deadly, as you have read previously here on this blog. I say again, please be careful, small batches and wet, and remember, it is not coated with graphite, so it is sensitive! How would you coat it with graphite, well, I believe the mixture is granulated to size, and the dampened, and lightly tumbled in graphite. Not sure of the commercial process. At one time, you could order a fifty pound brass container of pea sized black powder, that was once used in torpedoes, from Dixie Gun Works. 8) Wish I would have ordered one or more of those when they were available. But money was a bit tight then, and has not changed a whole lot since. :( Be careful, I kinda like reading all the posts on here, and would like it to continue. ;)
Wayne
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Well I guess I must have been lucky because I started out mixing it dry. Never had any problems but I switched to mixing it wet because it worked so much better.
Now talking about explosions reminds me of when I was young and my brothers and I using Acetylene and Oxygen, at the proper burning mix of course, to make flash/bang explosives. We would do this by filling large balloons, like beach balls, with the mix and setting them off with a fuse, standing respectfully back of course. The sound they made was quite impressive but the flash even more so especially when we set them off at dusk. Didn't make my grandmother too happy though as they scared the crap out of her cows. I don't think we could get away with doing stuff like that these days.
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As I recall, the white stains you get on a very sweaty shirt as it dries is also kno3. I believe you can leach that out as well.
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Marc;
When I was in High School a few of us were making "fireworks" with Iodine and Ammonia, a heck of a, touchy, contact explosive when it dries out. Great for painting the underside of toilet seats 8). We also filled up balloons with Oxy/Acetylene, tied them on a long string to a 25 cent helium balloon. then we taped a Cherry Bomb to the side of it after we taped cannon fuse to the Cherry Bomb. It detonated about 500' up, broke windows all over town and they scrabbled jets from Mc Dill Air Force Base. Last time we tried that.
And then there were the Oxy/Acetylene cannons,, :D
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Mullet... been a while since I laughed that hard. Both accounts you told were great. Was it the girls toilet seat yall painted? And man I'd love to hear the news broarcast over the air burst yall made.
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Marc;
When I was in High School a few of us were making "fireworks" with Iodine and Ammonia, a heck of a, touchy, contact explosive when it dries out. Great for painting the underside of toilet seats 8). We also filled up balloons with Oxy/Acetylene, tied them on a long string to a 25 cent helium balloon. then we taped a Cherry Bomb to the side of it after we taped cannon fuse to the Cherry Bomb. It detonated about 500' up, broke windows all over town and they scrabbled jets from Mc Dill Air Force Base. Last time we tried that.
And then there were the Oxy/Acetylene cannons,, :D
Back in the Fifties, I remember the jets flying over the city of Lake Worth, and hitting the sound barrier, and they would break windows in some of the stores. The city was not too pleased with that and they changed their flight route. Still rattled our house. They would fly out of Mars air base, which is now Palm Beach International. Maybe that is what they thought was going on, and since they didn't have anyone doing testing, they thought it might be an interloper from The Russian red commies! ......Eddie? Yes we knew him.... " He was a quiet child" ;D
Wayne
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Back in the early 70's my younger brother used to work for a trucking supply company that had a machine shop, that's where he worked. I'd had limited success with making my own muzzleloaders so I had the bright idea, bigger must be better. I decided we needed to make a canon. Chris of course was elected to make the barrel. He had seen a short piece of thick walled high pressure steel pipe laying around in the shop, it was about 24" long with a bore of around 2". He set about plugging one end while I worked on the ignition, I figured a remote ignition was probably best. I was reloading shotgun shells so I had primers and powder and I made a mould out of plaster for the ball. It was the middle of winter before we had it done but we had to test it. We dragged it out into the bush, loaded it up with powder , homemade card wads, the ball and lined it up towards a big Poplar about 18" in diameter. We hid behind a dead fall and set it off. There was a boom and the tree shook. Unfortunately I was a bit too liberal with the gunpowder and all there was left of the back end of our canon was a jagged end and shrapnel streaks in the snow. The ball nearly made it through the frozen tree though