Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on January 08, 2014, 11:56:50 am
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A few years ago James Parker gave me a nice lemonwood stave(3/4" thick board). I've never worked lemonwood but I decided to go for a hickory backed American Longbow style. I will be adding a riser to the belly side and need some advise on the length of the riser.
The bow will be 68" t/t, 1 1/2" at the fades and pyramidal limbs with the taper starting at the fades. I will have a 4" handle and 4" fades like the old ALBs had. Do I want to add a 12" or 14" riser at glue-up? I'll build it for a 28" max draw.
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Id suggest 14" Pat. That gives you plenty of room to feather it into your fades without getting to far back in the handle.
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And, that smells like one smooooooth design. My last few had 4" handles and 3" fades. real nice feel.
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I was thinking that too, Pearlie. I'll probably end up with a shorter riser after the tillering because of the thickness of the stave plus the backing but it should all b lend in better starting out with the longer riser.
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Sounds like my kinda rig....either or will be fine IMO....but I'd go 14" if I could...I like a long as possible riser(handle n fades) cus it aids in a lil more stability in the bow and the shot....plus longer fades creates a very aesthetically pleasing blend into the handle ;)
Oh and you might wanna think about using a powerlam....don't have to but that will help your riser and handle area out IMO
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Thanks Chris. I'll go with the 14" riser.
This bow will be asymmetrical like the true ALBs were. The handle will be 1 1/4" above the center line and 2 3/4" below.
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Sounds like a fantastic plan Stan!!! ;)
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Well, here is another question...the riser is a solid block of ERC and I've shaped it and have it ready to go. I'm adding about 3/4" of reflex at glue-up so it should settle out flat or slightly reflexed off the form. Should I glue up the stave and backing and add the riser after or glue the riser to the stave and add the backing later? There is enough flex in the ERC riser so it will give a little when needed. I'm planning on using Urac to glue the backing and the handle.
I plan to use tightly wrapped inner tube bands on the glue-up and clamp the handle to pull it into reflex. I may have to use extra clamps at the fades and the tips but that isn't a problem.
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Sounds like a good idea to me, also. I figured chris would go with a 22" riser and an 80 NTN.
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...and made out of poplar. ;)
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Sounds like a good idea to me, also. I figured chris would go with a 22" riser and an 80 NTN.
Lmao... :laugh: ...ya know that sounds too short to me ;) ;D
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Pat when I made more lam bows I always glued my riser on then glue the back on the next day. I didn't want to take a chance of that handle area not being flat/parallel after reflex was added. I would put the core belly facing down, after glue was applied to it and the backer. Then place the backer on and place a clamp at each fade to be sure it didn't separate on me. Then Id lift the tips to my desired reflex and finish clamping. Hope that makes sense. I don't have pics.
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I always feel awkward giving you advice/my opinion..cus your my repescted elder....
Anyways...I know I always wait to glue a riser section on after I glue the back n belly up,and so do most other guys I know....but maybe we do it because were able to put deflex or shape into the handle area and this allows us to do that...and you can easiky make it fit after without much issue honestly(especially if ya already got good wood working skills,which you do)....personally it can be a pain too trying to glue too many pieces at once...and personally a solid erc block would be one of my last choices for a riser block/glued on handle...to light of wood for me,and not as much physical weight there as a dense piece of wood would be....I like a strong wooded handle for added weight for slight stability gains...and not as prone to getting dinged up....but that's just me and my personal preference...I'd rather use the erc as an accent stripe with a denser wood as the main bulk of the handle....
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Yea, he's an Elder alright, all of those trees are older then dirt when they start getting good. ;)
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I think the Torges R/D BBO craze is what prompted a latter gluing of the handle. It allowed the incurred deflex to be traced unto the riser block for a perfect fit.
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I know that's how I do it chris, glued on after backing with a powerlam
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My wood working skills are crap, Chris. ;) I can build selfbows because I've built so many over a long period of time. I'm that blind squirrel you keep hearing about. ;D
I thought about using heavier wood for the riser. I have a beautiful piece of osage, 2"x2"x30" and over 20 years old. I could cut it out of that.
I have to do the glue up in two sessions because working with too many slippery pieces always seems to get screwed up for me.
The osage isn't going to flex like the ERC does but the handle area should be plenty stiff enough to prevent any handle popping problems.
If you respect your elders, Chris you answer their questions when they ask! ;D
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Riiiiight...and that's why ya just won another bom cause your a crappy woodworker...lol :laugh: ...and yes sir ;)
A properly fitted powerlam will prevent any handle popping issues if you think there will be any,and makes a nice looking accent to it,and make it stiffer...but its not the only way to deal with a handle staying on as yins knows...I just think personally its the best way and makes it look a lil more classy...but u know how strongly opinionated I am too ;)
N Don't worry about using the osage for a handle block...if yins needs more I can get ya plenty more for free.....I burn a lot of that size cut aways n stuff....
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The lemon wood is 3/4" thick, The hickory backing strip is 1/4" thick, add a 14" handle with 4" fades and that thing shouldn't bend a bit. I will reduce the backing thickness but I can keep it thicker at the handle and taper it towards the tips. I don't think a power lam is necessary. It's been quite a few years since I've done a glue-up so I don't need to add more "parts", like a power lam, into the mix.
It even feels alien to me to be working with flat, straight bow wood anyway. ;D
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Know you will do good on this one pat.and it is aperant eddie hasnt mellowed any in his ooold age.
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If anything, ohma, he's ripened. ;)
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:o wow this is gona be a goodn :)
DBar
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Plenty of meat there then....sometimes its a nice break from the wild n crazy unpredictable and work some boards ;)
Got any pics? You know we like pics ;D
I think eddies been eating too much spicy food today 8) ...or drinking too much of that mason jar water :laugh:
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You should do another build along Pat. I learned so much from your last one. If not, can't wait to see the finished product :)
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I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow and document the process.
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So from flare to flare, it will be 12" long? And a 14" riser piece would take the fades just 1" past the flare on each end? I think that is the minimum I would go, in fact, I always go at least 1 1/2" past, but that is with limb thickness at near final dimension. ... with your lemonwood being 3/4" thick, working limb will be thinner so some of the 'extra' thickness will naturally be used in creating the fades/dips, so it could be shorter. This extra thickness from dip to dip will also preclude any additional need for a power lam... which I've never needed anyhow :^)
I would use osage or something as dense and durable for the riser... and taper the lemonwood in thickness prior to reflexing and gluing on the backing. I'd keep the hickory backing piece parallel... no need to complicate that at all. Just my $.02
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Squirrel, this is an American longbow style I'm copying from a book I have that was published in 1936. The fades go from the handle to the flairs so they are actually 4" long. Some of the 14" riser will be eliminated as the bow is tillered and the limbs are thinned. The taper of the pyramidal limbs allow for a smooth, even bend of the limbs even at 3/4" thick. I've done a dry run and everything is lining up and bending as I expected it would.
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Im with the others. I would glue the riser on last. Trace the limb on the riser block, cut it out, and sand to the line :)
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:'( :'(wow, I'm feeling hurt. No mason jars over here, plenty of Israeli Gold Star, though. ;D
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well,, all this great advice from you guys is outstanding,, pat what ever you decide to do, I know I will like the bow when your finished,,, you do remember my mailing address ,right? lol.. I cant wait to see it,, on another note ,luke says hi,, he is looking for someones car to crawl in,lol... now that's funny, he said youd know what I mean...james
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I ain't no pro like James,but this is how I do my glue ups most the time...I always end up just using what I got and making it work,and that's good enough for me ;) ...here's one I started from scratch and finished over Thanksgiving weekend that I haven't posted yet..its just a simple tri lam...if your worried about the handle flexing during glue up and changing shape from being perfectly in plane straight you can clamp the handle section like this to a board(shims in between clamps of course to not crush the backer,and to distribute better even pressure thru the handle area for tight glue lines in the handle area where it isn't inner tube wrapped)....altho no handle was glued on this one you get the point,and I did it because I wanted that area flat and straight ;) hope this helps someone ? ???
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131128_120355_093.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/blackhawk28/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131128_120355_093.jpg.html)
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Here's a sneak peak of that bow....need to get some pics n post this thing already...maybe today or tomorrow? ??? ::)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131201_155621_855.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/blackhawk28/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131201_155621_855.jpg.html)
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Same exact way I do it, with the riser glued on.
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Sounds like you got a good plan of attack there pat!
I've got a 3/4" lemonwood board I can't decide what to do with maybe I'll take the longbow route:)
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James, tell Luke hey for me and to not be a stranger. He's just lucky it was my car he passed out in. Someone else could have taken advantage of the situation and of him. ;) He's too tall for me. ;D
I'm curious to see how this lemonwood works. So far its doing just fine. Thanks again for the lemonwood stave. Tell Becca hey for me.
Bryce, when James gave me the stave I knew I wanted to make a classic style bow being that lemonwood was a standard bow wood during the rebirth of archery in America. What better bow choice than a good old American Longbow, the standard of that time.
I went with Pearlie's suggestion and glued the riser to the lemonwood belly this morning and have it in the hot box now. Next I'll add the hickory backing with about 3/4" of reflex...on a set up like yours Chris. I stopped by a local bike shop and got a trashed tire tube. Using what you got and making it work is how I've always done things too. Being poor does have it's advantages! ;)
I'm using Urac for everything. Gluing the riser first is how I used to do it but it had been so long my mind went blank. Trying to get the riser cut to match the curvature of the bow well enough for a glue joint would have been a nightmare for me. This kind of stuff is where my woodworking skills lack.
Anyway, I'm committed (or should be ::) ) now so it is what it is.
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Im excited to see it Pat! I need to try some lemonwood for the same reason you did, history.
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Im excited to see it Pat! I need to try some lemonwood for the same reason you did, history.
Bingo!
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Another great thread Pat. Can't hardly wait to see the pics.
Cipriano
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I'll get some pics posted tomorrow.
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I think I'll start a new post for this bow.