Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on February 08, 2014, 11:13:05 am

Title: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 08, 2014, 11:13:05 am
I was thinking a few weeks ago that it's been awhile since I made one of these.  I had some Elm which I had cut a couple years ago and preliminary testing showed that the wood was pretty good, not the best I've cut but certainly fairly high quality Elm.  I decided to try it in a higher stress design to see how it stood up.  The stave I picked had a bit of character, a small kink on one side and a knot on the other.  I heat-treated the wood adding about 5" of reflex, flipped the tips a bit and took out most of the kink at the same time.  The finished bow kept a bit more than 2" of reflex.  It's 65" long overall with limbs 1 5/8" wide and a finished draw weight of 55# @ 28"

Here's a few pics

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Elm%20Bows/Heat-Treated%20Flatbow/Braced.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Elm%20Bows/Heat-Treated%20Flatbow/TipOverlay.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Elm%20Bows/Heat-Treated%20Flatbow/Handle.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Elm%20Bows/Heat-Treated%20Flatbow/FullDraw.jpg)
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: bushboy on February 08, 2014, 11:17:02 am
very cool as per usual!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: bubbles on February 08, 2014, 11:25:49 am
Niiiiice
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: SLIMBOB on February 08, 2014, 11:26:03 am
Drawn, braced and unstrung, all sweet profiles.  The unstrung is particularly sweet.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Mark Smeltzer on February 08, 2014, 11:32:55 am
Wow, that came out nice!!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Cameroo on February 08, 2014, 11:56:30 am
Very nice profile Mark.  I really like the handle area too.  Looks like it fits like a glove!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: TRACY on February 08, 2014, 11:59:21 am
Very nice bow Mark

Tracy
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: adb on February 08, 2014, 12:00:48 pm
Eye candy... as usual!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Hrothgar on February 08, 2014, 12:09:54 pm
Nice finish and profile, bet its a sweet shooter.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 08, 2014, 12:14:48 pm
Thank you guys. 

I did shoot it and it shoots fast, for a straight limb bow.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Badly Bent on February 08, 2014, 12:33:41 pm
   Has the look of a hard hitting and accurate bow that would also be smooth to draw and shoot, very nice bow Marc.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Bryce on February 08, 2014, 12:46:48 pm
That baby looks smooooooooth
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Fred Arnold on February 08, 2014, 12:48:27 pm
Another beautiful bow Mark!! I have a question for you though. I've never cut a shelf that deep into a self bow and see where you compensated in the handle area and also leaving the off side almost straight into the fade opposite the arrow pass side. How do you determine how much wood is safe to remove?
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: mwosborn on February 08, 2014, 01:08:43 pm
Very nice looking full draw!  Have never tried any elm - might have to give it a go.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Arrowind on February 08, 2014, 01:24:32 pm
AWESOME
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: PAHunter on February 08, 2014, 01:32:58 pm
I like everything about that bow!  Good work.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Sidewinder on February 08, 2014, 02:42:40 pm
Another classic Mark StLouis style flatbow. Always an inspiration to those of us trying to achieve such a high level of consistancy. Thanks for sharing Mark.    Danny
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Peacebow_Coos on February 08, 2014, 04:21:01 pm
Dang that's a looker beautiful detail work too
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: RyanR on February 08, 2014, 05:28:54 pm
Nice job. Nice looking grip/arrow rest.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: dbb on February 08, 2014, 06:37:30 pm
Nice one!
Very close to true centershot,should make it easy to get the spine just right.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Crogacht on February 08, 2014, 06:40:43 pm
Can't stop staring at that full draw, the tiller is hypnotic  :o
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 08, 2014, 07:11:53 pm
Thanks again

I was almost 6 months with hardly making any bows last year due to a move so it was good to get back into it a few months ago.  I'm going to post another later this week that is quite different to this one and quite a bit faster.

Experience Fred.  I've made quite a lot of bows with this type of handle so I know what can and what cannot be done.

I've actually pulled this bow to 29" so it's pretty elastic wood.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: bigcountry on February 08, 2014, 07:21:58 pm
I would love to make my handles like this, but am scared to death to try to cut that much of a window.  Sure would be nice finding a good spine instead of my 1/2 off center handles.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Gordon on February 08, 2014, 09:28:44 pm
I really like your bows Marc. You always get the most out of any design. I learn something every time you post one.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Carson (CMB) on February 08, 2014, 09:50:12 pm
Looks like a real nice shooter there. 
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: IdahoMatt on February 08, 2014, 11:48:20 pm
Thank you for posting your bows.  They are just so recognizable.  Love everything about them.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: k-hat on February 09, 2014, 12:38:11 am
Elm + Marc = awesome.  Another beauty sir.  Love everything a bout her.  I've got an elm pyramid bow in the works and I think on this one I'm going to push myself on narrowing those tips like you have there.  Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: DuBois on February 09, 2014, 12:44:00 am
I really like your bows Marc. You always get the most out of any design. I learn something every time you post one.
+1
Thanks, Marco
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Bowman on February 09, 2014, 05:30:32 am
Nice piece of art as usual. The tiller is close to perfect. I'll bet it's fast. 55# and still 2" of reflex,- I'm impressed.


 :)
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 09, 2014, 08:24:07 am
Thanks guys

The tips are 3/8" wide at the nocks

Thank you for posting your bows.  They are just so recognizable.  Love everything about them.

I guess that makes me predictable?
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: IdahoMatt on February 09, 2014, 10:30:11 am
No that makes your bows a true part of your self.  Just as some others on PA such as Gordon,Bryce (pinecone), and Greg (badlybent).  Their bows are also recognizable not because they are predictable but because they put themselves into the bows. :)
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Will H on February 09, 2014, 12:51:21 pm
Always enjoy looking at your bows sir! That one looks smooth as silk :) thanks for sharing!!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: burchett.donald on February 09, 2014, 07:58:01 pm
 Love that front profile...I know it's a smoooothie and fast too... Beautiful work and tiller... 8)
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 09, 2014, 08:21:43 pm
Thank you all
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 10, 2014, 12:51:50 am
Nice! It's another beauty! Jawge
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: bowsandroses on February 10, 2014, 01:14:09 am
Man that is sweet I'm working on a piece of red elm right now hope it turns out half that sweet.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: dwardo on February 10, 2014, 05:47:33 am
When I think elm, recurve, I do a search for your name and elm for inspiration.
I have one very similar now thats at floor tiller.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Pappy on February 10, 2014, 08:12:20 am
Another very nice one,beautiful bow. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: blackhawk on February 10, 2014, 08:51:12 am
I guess this ones OK too...  ::)  :laugh: ...almost looks more holmgaardish,or at least some of that styles influences
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: ohma2 on February 10, 2014, 01:08:12 pm
Youve probably posted this before , but what species of elm are you cutting up there?
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: paoliguy on February 10, 2014, 01:15:42 pm
Yet another classic! I always like to see a post from Marc St Louis - you just know it's going to be a good one!
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: PatM on February 10, 2014, 01:26:26 pm
Hard to beat one of your elm bows, Marc.
 We have Rock elm, Red Elm and American Elm up here. Mostly American though. I very rarely see Red Elm and Rock Elm. Usually small clusters of them isolated.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 10, 2014, 01:56:41 pm
Thanks again guys

I've been making bows in this style, narrow outer tips, since before the Holmegaard became popular years ago.

Yes that question has been asked before ohma and my standard answer is....I can't positively identify all the different types of Elm I have cut.  There are White Elm up here and I have cut some but then there are others that couldn't really be classified into a specific species, and there are many, as I believe they are hybrids.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: PatM on February 10, 2014, 02:21:46 pm
American Elm is itself a very reluctant hybrid. It doesn't cross well at all according to lab tests. The other Elms mostly  (all?) have the same chromosome count and cross much more readily.
 I know of several areas where the few Red Elm or Rock Elm are growing right next to American elms and I have seen nothing nearby that could be described as intermediate in type.
 Red Elm and Rock Elm have some very distinct differences (twig difference in Red elm and corky branches in Rock Elm) that I have never seen in an American Elm with the exception of extreme "corkiness" of trunk bark in some American Elm.
 I wouldn't be surprised if American Elm doesn't just have quite a bit of individual variation. I notice  bark differences that  strongly indicate the wood difference underneath.
 I should take a few pics of some pieces I have that really illustrate this trait.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 11, 2014, 08:01:51 am
I've seen quite a lot of Elm with different looking bark from thick cork looking bark to very thin bark and everything in between.  Then there's the variations in working properties.  There's only supposed to be 3 species growing up here, White, Slippery and Rock Elm but I can't say I've ever seen a Slippery Elm I could positively identify according to the identifying markers the botanists claim it to have and I can't say I've ever seen or cut a Rock Elm.  I have cut some very dense Elm though but what it was I couldn't tell you.  It didn't have the appearance of Rock Elm and it was quite a bit more dense that White.  I can say positively that Elm is one strange species.
Title: Re: Heat-Treated Elm Flatbow
Post by: blackhawk on February 11, 2014, 08:17:38 am
Woe....you've been making bows for thousands of years? Tell me your secret...lol  :laugh:  :laugh: ..jus messin with ya  ;) whatever ya wanna label it as they are a very solid overall tough design to beat :)

I have found the same vagaries and wierdness of the elms down here as well...some can be tough to pinpoint with 100% certainty,and I've seen quite a bit of variance within the same species as far as its bark appearances...BUT when ya get a good one, then that's all that matters to me