Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bearded bowyer on March 24, 2014, 07:33:29 pm
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Hi everyone.
I have a chap who wants a longbow (it has to be a longbow) Tri laminate, with the maximum possible cast.
He wants it for shooting targets at 100 yards. He wants 60-65lbs draw weight.
I am thinking Hickory/ something/ lemonwood. but would really appreciate any ideas you can give.
I have
Hickory
bamboo
purple heart
ash
beech
maple
lemonwood
sapele
some English yew (not great quality)
Ipe
Iroko
what do you guys think the best combination is........
Whilst we are on the topic of cast ::) what are thoughts on short/long fat thin....etc.
Remember it has to be a English longbow. ;)
thanks
Matt
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I would go with bamboo for the back,maple core and ipe belly glued up in a perry reflex.
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+1
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Purple heart looks nice between hickory and lemonwood and seems to be a popular choice from what I see on your side of the pond.
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I like maple for cores. I think it is a better choice (performance wise) over all the denser core wood usually used like osage, ipe, bloodwood, etc. I tried ERC once, but the bow blew up. >:( I think if the thing would of held together, it would of made a good core too. I also like maple backs. I like them better than hickory or bamboo. One of my fav combos so far is boo-maple-hickory. It might not look not as pretty and contrasting as the exotic woods, but it spits an arrow nicely. Especially if the maple used is a lighter maple.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Boo%20Maple%20Hickory%20Trilam/DSCN3498.jpg) (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/toomany7/media/Boo%20Maple%20Hickory%20Trilam/DSCN3498.jpg.html)
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I just finished up a bow with maple back, cherry core and osage belly. It is fast for it's 50#.
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Just another opinion. I think it is hard to make a 50 elb really efficient with heavy dense woods. If you make them narrow enough they can get unstable. For practicing at 100 yards my choice would be 72" long, maple backed cherry. The cherry and maple are light enough that you can maintain some good width demensions. Maybe 1 1/4: wide with deep cross section. Make the belly only very slightly rounded, almost flat.
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Badger may be onto something there! And as the cherry darkens with age, the maple will give it nice contrast.
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Just another opinion. I think it is hard to make a 50 elb really efficient with heavy dense woods. If you make them narrow enough they can get unstable. For practicing at 100 yards my choice would be 72" long, maple backed cherry. The cherry and maple are light enough that you can maintain some good width demensions. Maybe 1 1/4: wide with deep cross section. Make the belly only very slightly rounded, almost flat.
+1
Ipe would work but as BAdger says it's about getting the most from it by narrowing. Forget lemonwood, it's flabby and slow in a true elb. Sycamore is another wood that we can get lots of here in England. Personally I might go for a maple backed sycamore.
My fastest bows for this sort of thing have had point on at about 70 yds. Much, much more important than the bow.....are the arrows. Footed and barrelled with a lightish point of 80 or so grains is the way to go.
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Steve, I think he says needs/wants to be Tri-Lam… what would you use then?
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Ron, for an english long bow the only reason i would use a tri lam would be if I was commited to a heavy dense bellywood, in which case I would chooose a lighter core wood like maple or cherry for instance.
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Steve- So for tri-lam: if we go by his list of woods he has, and maple is core of preference, then for belly using Ipe is out cuz he'd get too narrow for stability..so how about he use hickory face, maple core, birch or ash belly.. I dunno..the others on list don't sound belly suitable in this config. Keep in mind my very limited experience.
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He could still use ipe for belly and maple core and manage the mass by using a more elyptical tiller which allows for more mass. I would also not go over about 66" if I were going 50# with ipe.
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Guys cherry n osage are not on the op's available list...
Boo maple yew....make the boo narrower than the belly...
I don't know the fellow but 60-65 pounds is a bit much for most folks strictly target shooting these days..especially long distance shooting...is he sure he can handle that? I prefer 45-50 for target shooting...
What's his draw length? Since you didnt state that I can't say what a good length wood be...but I'd go as long as possible...IMO a longer bow is more forgiving of our errors in shooting
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I made a tri-lam ELB that went to a guy in California last year, and it was maple back, bloodwood core and yew belly. 72" long, and 1.25" at the handle, with very tiny tips. He was shooting York Rounds or something apparently, and I believe it was out to 70+ yards.
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Just another opinion. I think it is hard to make a 50 elb really efficient with heavy dense woods. If you make them narrow enough they can get unstable. For practicing at 100 yards my choice would be 72" long, maple backed cherry. The cherry and maple are light enough that you can maintain some good width demensions. Maybe 1 1/4: wide with deep cross section. Make the belly only very slightly rounded, almost flat.
Oh yeah, but osage makes the best bow everytime!?! How can a denser 0.84 specific gravity wood not have the best cast everytime in a bow specifically designed with longer limbs! I can't fathom it! Blasphemy! ;)
(Edit: ...And after my snide comment, I recede back into my dark dirty workshop to glue up two more osage elbs, being the hypocrite I am,...)
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Osage will have the best outcome if you you compensate for the mass in your design. In the case of heavy woods more elyptical.
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Thanks everyone for brilliant feed back as usual! :)
The chap has a aiming method where he sights the target using the pile tip of the arrow, the bow I just made him is spot on for 80 yards, but he just cant adjust for 100......( Im not quite sure why.....maybe he should aim a little heigher ;))
His draw length is standard 28 and he seems to be able to handle is 63@28 really well.
The bow I made him is hickory/beech/lemonwood. about 72" NTN. full compass.
He wants a bow with better cast, rather than higher pondage. But I do have a selection of bows he could try upto 100lbs@28 to see if he can handle them.
What do you all think about.
1. Shorter
2. Different materials...( as has already been discussed. But will it make a huge difference?)
3. Higher poundage
4. All of the above.
Thanks again
Matt
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Tell him to lower his anchor point... ;)
Del
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I'm no flight shooter by any means ,I agree with mike that different lenght and weight. Arrows and del's advice to ajusting his anchor or notching point .
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Thanks
Anyone know where I can get sycamore in Cambridgeshire in the UK?
I want to try the maple sycamore and the maple cherry
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100 yrds is not very far especially with a 60# bow. I would go with Bamboo (thin), Maple and Yew, as long as the Yew is not full of knots. Otherwise it would be Ipe for the belly. No mention of draw length here but I would make the bow no more than 70" for a 30" draw and go up or down 2" for each 1" draw length difference
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I have no comment on the wood combos but one thing that will help increase cast is as little weight at the last third and tips as you can get away with. I was just reminded of this not long ago and tried it. It works.
The osage bow I am just finishing shoots faster than any I have made to date (and they were no slouches). The tips are also as narrow as I have done to date as well. Look at how narrow blackhawks pyramid molly's look and you will begin to get the idea. Don't know how that works on a trilam but its worth considering. Danny
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Thanks sidewinder
you are absolutely right of course. Don't know why I didn't think of that.
Get rid of as much weight as possible in the tips= greater cast.
Thank you sir!
That's the problem with English longbows, people want big elaborate highly polished horn nocks, which just slow it down.....
So.......
The mass of the tips is important, have any of you looked in to the profile or is that too much knit picking?
Could always go for the golf ball depressions approach ;) I understand from a aeronautics professor it can help improve supersonic flight!
Matt
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I am starting to think that the less moving parts the better(less hysteria).I have made d bows,gull wings, ect .I think that stiff handled,static's,R/d's with stiff recurves and pyramid mollies store more energy due to less energy lost to friction as the bow begins to recoil and high early draw weight.I may be off base here ,but I can only report on where I'm trending.
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hysteria??
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hysteria??
lol I think he meant hysteresis. Here's a good thread on it: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/13236/Hysteresis-in-Wooden-Bows-New-Data
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That's the problem with English longbows, people want big elaborate highly polished horn nocks, which just slow it down.....
I am very guilty of that, :).
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You know, bows running round like chickens with their nocks cut off!
If we substitute hysteresis for hysteria it makes a little more sense. But I still like the idea of frantic bows all worked up and panic stricken!
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hysteria??
lol I think he meant hysteresis. Here's a good thread on it: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/13236/Hysteresis-in-Wooden-Bows-New-Data
That's what I thought... butcha never know. :o
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Looking at old photos of yew bows at the York Rounds and the bows often have a very elliptical tiller, some even whip-tillered. Combined with narrow tips and light arrows this works. Also need good overall length to avoid stacking with this tiller approach.
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Rob can't help it. Its His Canadian accent eh? Danny
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Lol!