Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: markinengland on December 27, 2007, 03:18:54 pm
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I just started a new experimental warbow.
The belly is a nice piece of Ipe, the backing a good bit of hickory.
I'm aiming for 110lbs at 30 inches.
I've glued in 5 inches of reflex but tied down at about 2/3rds along each limb to concentrate the reflex more at the tips. I'm hoping this will avoid any possible hinges near the tips and allow me to carefully reduce the width and depth of the tips to get a nice smooth typical warbow shape at brace and full draw while maximising performance for distance. I plan on leaving the handle section stiff for about 12 inches.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0504.jpg)
This is the belly stave marked out. I covered the Ipe with masking tape so I can see the lines a bit more easily.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0508.jpg)
Here the belly and backing are shaped and rounded ready for glueing. The belly stave floor tillered well so I left it as it was.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0509.jpg)a
A bit hard to see but here is the belly and backing glued and bound with a rubber strip.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0510.jpg)
Here the bow is in the form. 5 inches of reflex at the tips but tied down about 2/3rds along the limb to 2 inches so the reflex is concentrated in the last part of the limb where it narrows and depth reduces most.
I should be able to take the bow out of the form on Saturday and unwrap it. I have a feeling it may be a bit of a monster but there is plenty of wood in depth and width that I can remove if necessary.
Will post more as the build progresses.
Mark in England
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Sweet. Keep posting pics of your progress. Good wood combo.
J. D.
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What J.D. said.
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Steve,
I do actually have two nice almost black pieces of Ipe and some perfect bamboo with a view to making a record breaking flight bow. Within the time I have for bow making I have been experiementing to make a really good flight performing bow. This nice chap asked me to make him a bow like that a terribly long time ago, but I am getting worried he may now to too old to pull such a mighty bow! Would a flight record still stand if the bow were built as part of a Zimmer Frame and used a pulley system ;D?
The last bow I made worked well. Ipe with bamboo backing, out of the same piece of Ipe as this one. It could have made 110lbs but for a slight error in cleaning up through the line instead of to the line near one tip when cutting the basic tapers. Long central stiff handle with narrow relatively stiff tips making it a short bow on a long handle. It came out at 60lbs at 30 inches once I had allowed for this annoying tip hinge. The bow was outshooting others 20 to 30lbs heavier and it wasn't being pulled to full draw by a long way. This bow went to one of my brother-in-laws as a trade for a nice knife.
Mark
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I took the bow out of the clamps, undid the rubber strip and cleaned it up this afternoon.
Looks nice and has about 2 inches of reflex at the tips.
There is more than enough wood there for 110lbs at 30 inches.
Bow bends quite nice and I reckon tips will be just about stiff enough once cleaned up and worked a bit.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0523.jpg)
Mark
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;D Well that is looking a bit more "normal". ;)
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Richard,
Almost dissappointing isn't it! Sometimes quite a few inches of glued in reflex can dissappear, but you can tell it is there by the increased stiffness of the bow. Of course every now and then just to throw you off you'll glue in five inches of reflex and it will still all be there when it comes out the clamps! I think that very small differences in the thickness or strength of the backing makes a big difference.
Glued on some horn for nocks this morning so will be able to shape them later on.
Also did some basic shaping in tapers for a 150lb Ipe warbow. I'll wait to see how this experimental bow turns out to glue that one up though.
Now off out to cust some dogwood for arrows.
Mark
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Mark, the bow is looking good, I am convinced that you don't need all that reflex for record breaking performance. My bows are getting straighter all the time and concentrating more on where to concentrate the bend and controlling the mass, Are you going to tiller this bow into the arc of a circle or with a stiff mid-section? How long is the bow?
Mark, what you said about shooting off a frame is a good question. Present flight rules are more about the flight shooter and not the bows are bowyers so mush be shot by hand. A lot of us are more into building bows and want to see their potential. A hand-shot bow, shot by an experienced distance shooter or speed shooter can outshoot the machine shot bow considerably as the bow hand will be in motion adding up to about 20 fps to a shot. The only way I know to duplicate this for a test would be to shoot the bow through the machine and set is so a 4" spring is compressed against the bow when it is at full draw, even 1/2 draw would likley work, this would act like an active bow hand. You would have to check the speed of the bow shot in a static mode and then shot with the spring loaded bow to verify the actual advantage, I would set the spring to add about 10 fps as this would be average for a good flight shooter. Be kind of cool to start a registry for tested bows on both sides of the pond.
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Steve,
This bow will be a basic full arc bow, or as close as I can get it as this is what David wants. I will leave the centre slightly stiff.
I am slowly building up my knowledge for the "record breaker" or at least what I hope may be one.
I recently made a 60lb longbow with a 20 inch stiff handle and it worked well. Out of the sister stave for this one with a bamboo backing. Came out of the glue up flat though I put in a couple of inches of reflex. It was a swap for a knife from Danny, one of my brother-in-laws. The bow seemed to perform very well in terms of distance. Danny also did quite well with it first time out at our field club so the formula must be failry stable to shoot.
I guess we could agree a standard shooting machine. This would allow some comparative tests and results on both sides of the big pond. Could be fun. It would have to be failry portable so I could transport it to the filed I can shoot in.
Mark
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Mark, I think it will end up faster,and I think the original reflex would be good on a fast 40# bow that long. My experiences are the same as Steve's, even though we can compare bows on occasion at the S. Cal. gatherings. I find my fastest bows are very close to straight as well.
My latest slender longbows have been r/d in fashion with the bend concentrated closer to the handle than usual with very straight outer limbs..
I can see this shooting machine looking like a big crossbow with interchangeable limbs ;)
Rich
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Mark, just for the heck of it I figured out what I would shoot for on mass for that bow, with a 12" semi stiff center I allowed for a 6" center stiff. For a self bow it would be about 34 oz, for a backed bow I take off about 10%Which would put it close to 31 and then if you are making it for flight I would try and get it down to about 28oz or 29 oz. Do you know what the stave weighs now untillered? Steve
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Mark, Steve and Rich, thanks for posting this. It is exciting for me to watch someone build a bow, but for you guys to post your thought process as you go through it is immensely profitable to the rest of us. I wish I could understand the thought process a little better in the design and building for better performance. I understand Steve's mass formula, but it is such a small portion of the process. Thanks again, Justin
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Richard,
I'd be interested to see some pics of your RD longbows.
Steve,
Right at the moment the bow is at between 29.5 and 30 ounces. I'm guessing some will come off that in tillering but not too much, but there again it may be underweight! The bow is somewhat overlong but will be safer in use for it. I hope the weather is good enough tomorrow to get outside and do some more work on it.
Justin,
I love the making of bows and the shooting of them, but one of the best things is that you can think them through during any work day. It is interesting to see if the thought process actually works out in practice, and of course mistakes are good learning chances, even if they do get a bit boring at times! I have spent quite a time thinking strange thoughts, putting a lot of hours in and made some lovely broken bows ;D So far these have all been experimental ones I have made for me, which seems a little unfair.
This bow should be failry safe, it will just be interesting to see how light I can get the tips with the etra bit of semi-recuve reflex at the ends.
Mark
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It is kind of facinating trying to figure out what makes these things tick. A year ago I built an osage elb about 140#, didnt take any set to speak of but had lousy early draw weight. Since that time I have built many others whith much lower draw weight but having much higher tension at brace. I am convinced that the key to good performance with these bows is to not overstrain them durring tillering, wether or not it manifests itself in string follow is irrelevant compared to the brace tension we maintain. Steve
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wether or not it manifests itself in string follow is irrelevant compared to the brace tension we maintain. Steve
Wow, that's so simple but totally true. This is interesting guys.
J. D. Duff
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Mark I have a couple on my website, and I will post my latest one tomorrow. ;D The skinny one which is a 50/50 ipe/boo mix has been most entertaining design. The tri-lams might have couple fps edge, but nothing scientific has been undertaken..(was more than happy with the speed )..
What Steve says in his last post is why I floor tiller my bows well past brace height before stringing them..Feeling the bow flex in my hands tells me when I am getting it close to straining it. I have seen too many bows over strained by someone leaning back with the pulley rope in their hand, and this is fine for learning and you have to see these angles to learn..I'm happy when I can do very little to the tiller after the first stringing, and basically start shooting with a scraper in my back pocket in case I need to touch up a limb while shooting it in. My philosophy is I like having my limbs break-in by quickly releasing arrows as opposed to going back and forth slowly on the tiller tree. At least it works for me..
Rich-more to come
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Steve,
I agree that it is good not to overstrain a bow in the making. I am learning this as I make more bows. I no longer try to break a bow in, but gentle it. At one time I felt you had to work a bow to make it give in. Still, even these bows proved to be durable and shoot OK.
If you never pull a bow over the draw weight you want you will not undershoot when you have worked the bow back to the weight and draw length you are seeking. Also you will not have too much set as there should not be much overstrained wood there, just enough that tells you you are on or near the limit.
I feel that there may be a bow/arrow design that would give good performance at failry low brace tension. Maybe a long draw design similar to the yumi or even the English Warbow? It seems that for every rule we come up with there is a design that performs well that is basically the opposite! Maybe there is a bow design in which the initial release and acceleration is fast but that the final release of the arrow from the string is soft? What is lost in the lack of final push may be gained in terms of spine tolerance and arrow flight? Would there be a bow that is basically made to eb delfexed at brace height for very low brace tension but that would unwind during the draw to have high tension? Maybe a delfexed bow with a lot of contact recurve or a deflexed bow with hidden reflex within straight limbs?
Anyway, that is getting at least a couple of years ahead of my speed and time for bow making. Here I am making a slightly reflexed slightly recurved heavy bow and thinking of other things already.
Why do you feel your 140lb Osage had such low early draw weight and how did it perform? I have seen some big warbows shooting big heavy long arrows that performed quite well with relatively low early draw weight. It seems that some find a bow that has a significant amount of the draw weight past 30 inches or so works well for them as this is where their bodies find the leverage for pulling the high weight. I wonder if some of the warbow's dynamics are as much about the leverage/machine properties of the human bodies ability to pull such a weight as the performance? There would be little point have very efficient bows if the draw weight lower in the draw was such that the archer could not pull past this to get to the point where the body can be put into the bow to pull greater weight.
Rich, Maybe I am not experienced enough at floor tillering, but I find it very hard to truly guage the final draw weight of a stave at floor tillering. If the bow is at all reflexed floor tillering feel can be decieving and a bow can be reduced too much and end up underweight. I find it works better for me to floor tiller for basic bend and then get to a low brace height as soon as possible. I then tiller at very low draw lengths of no more than 6 inches past brace height never going over or too near the final desired final draw weight. I keep doing this until I have the brace height tiller shape I want, with good shape and even bend. I then gradually pull the bow further an inch at a time, keeping at or below fina draw weight, exercising the bow well after each wood removal. This allows me to creep up on the final draw length and weight with a well exercised and proven bow. I'd guess that tillering this way may make for a bow that performs slightly less well but that is less likely to fail in use? For a flight bow I'd guess that your method would be best. Make a bow to a proven formula, make it to brace height, pull it no more than 6 inches and make the first shot the one you do for the record. Risky but it would mean that the very best performance of the bow was on the flight shooting ground and not tied to the tiller!
Must go now as I have an experimental bow calling me.
Mark
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Well, I started tillering.
The bow is somewhat weak in the handle area. I think I would add an extra section between the belly and backing on the next bow I do like this. The Ipe flooring I have is a little thin in depth for heavier bows unless I go wider at the handle.
I got the bow to around 66 pounds at 23 inches and just starting to show a little set in the handle area. Bow mass is 28.5 ounces. The bow is bending too much in the handle though brace shape isn't too bad the weak handle shows up when it is drawn. I'll have to reduce the mid limb and tips more. Unfortunately I don't think the bow will make the weight I was after as it stands.
I am torn between making the bow to the weight it wants to be or adding a narrow second boo backing to up the strength.
Here is the bow at about 22 inches, 64lbs or so. I had a reflex deflex shape in mind so was prepared for a shape that looked wrong to my eyes, limbs looking stiff and handle looking too bendy but I think the handle area is bending too much and the outer and mid limbs too little, probably more mid limb that outer allowing for the glued in reflex in the outer limbs.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0527.jpg)
Here is the bow side profile just after taking the bow down from the tiller and relaxing the string. Now about half an hour later there is about 1/16th or so of set in the handle.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0528.jpg)
Thoughts?
Mark
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Mark, as weak as that handle area appears I would be tempted to cut the bow down to about 70" and reshape the sides. Simply not enough beef in the center for the kind of weight you were after. Steve
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Steve,
Have you ever added a backing to a bow part way through? My thinking is that I could shorten the bow to say 72 or 70 inches to increase the draw weight a bit but this would simply move the strong area to the tips and leave the centre weak.. I could reduce the width and depth of the mid limb and limb tips but I would need to remove a fair amount to compensate for the extra strength the localised reflex is causing.
Would adding a boo backing allow me to alter the thickness and width of the backing as well as the reflex to compensate and add to the potential of the bow instead of reduce it?
Mark
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Mark, that very well could work. Worth a shot I think. The center arera that is bending at 65# is just responding to the draw weight and I think has nothing to do with the tips being strong. What kind of width to thicness ratio do you have in the handle area of the bow now? I would not go past 1 to 1 for sure. Steve
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Steve,
The width at the handle is one and one eighth, the depth seven eighths. That gives me a quarter of an inch to play with!
A bamboo backing could be made to be thick at the handle (though not across the whole of the back) but thinner as it goes towars the tips becoming almost a feather edge at the tips. I could give the handle area a degree of reflex and leave the rest basically as it is. This may even things up somewhat as well as unintentionally allow me to try adding a second backing.
Mark
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Mark,What if you built up the grip area, and do what Steve said? You should have enough wood there for 90#'s Have a rigid grip and get the midlimbs working a bit more. Check out the bow I posted on the general forum. It's the same basic idea with a rigid grip.
Rich
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Rich,
Thanks for posting your bows. Very nice.
I have now glued on a boo backing and given the central handle area some back set. We'll see what it loooks like when it is cleaned up. A learning experience again!
Mark
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Experimenting is the fun part. We all have a bow we can hunt with ;D
Rich
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I don't think you have enough width to go really heavy. It will become unstable laterally and try to flip flop
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Marc,
I'll find out what kind of THING I have created when I take it out the clamp and rubber wrap tomorrow. Flip flop bows aren't fun.
Mark
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Well, it broke.
It cleaned up OK. Looked like it would be a goer.
Basic bend even looked good.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0544.jpg)
I was reducing the limbs to get it to near weight, stringing it to a no brace height to get a feel for how it was bending and how the weight was dropping. I guess I rushed things as it broke while being strung.
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So what have I learnt from this experiment?
I am embarrassed to say I have learnt some of these things before!
1) With Ipe a little relfex goes a long way - still.
2) Long narrow Ipe bows with reflex are bad news - Mark, you know this! Repeat one hundred times.
3) Don't rush - once you have it is too late to unrush.
4) Believe your eyes. It doesn't matter how much you would like the shape to be something else. Go with what you see - it really is there!
5) You can't force a bow to be something it isn't. If the bow wants to be 70lbs and you want it to be 110lbs, it will either be 70lbs or broke! - look at the broken bits if you doubt this Mark.
6) Over a certain draw weight the beey stave needs to be over a certain thickness. With the wood I have I need a central lam even if only in the handle area.
7) A second lam apparently really really ups the draw weight.
8) Using resorcinol bamboo doen't glue too well to horn and not that well to hickory.
9) Using the layout I experimented with and a central lam in the handle area a LITTLE reflex at the tips could produce a good fast bow with stiff light tips, but the middle of the bow needs to be adjusted to compensate.
10) There may be potential in a bow with two seperate backings, but the extra stress means that glue lines are critical and the bow must be designed with this in mind to begin with, not as an after thought.
11) The s econd backing must go under the nock/nock overlay.
As with most learning experiences I guess it was useful, but I wish I didn't keep doing this to myself. ???
Mark
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Sorry to hear that mark, I was looking forward to seeing the finished bow.
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Ah well, such is life. I had a good time over the Xmas break working on it. I feel I have learnt and I hope my next bow will include some of those lessons.
Mark
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My last four bows have failed... different reason each time. I keep thinking I have learned enough to make a decent bow but there's always a new problem with the next one.
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My last four bows have failed... different reason each time. I keep thinking I have learned enough to make a decent bow but there's always a new problem with the next one.
It was an experimental bow so dont feel bad that it failed; experiments are about learning
Thanks for posting the build along
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Simon,
I think self bows are more difficult as each piece of wood needs a different approach. Laminated or backed bows might alow us to change one thing at a time and see what the effect it.
Sometimes the effect is a broken bow!
Yes, sometimes it feels like we have had enough of the learning. Trouble is, once you feel that you have the right formula it isn't so interesting and the urge to make broken bows takes over ;D I sometimes think that I am working to perfect the broken bow! It always seems to be the bow I take the most care and time over that breaks, while one that takes littl;e thought and effort is fine. Maybe I should stop thinking.
Alan, I am glad the bow broke now rather than in use. I have learnt and I hope that the next attempt will use what I learnt and be a good one. I must try to avoid the temptation to add another variable!
So next bow is still a 110lb bow before attempting a 150. Bow making can be such fun. How else could you spend days and days having fun making something only to have the chance to start all over again. :)
Mark
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Hi Mark,
Sorry to ear that this cool experiment of yours finally failed!
Only one thing, that final pic you posted reminds me to one I took while making my first Dogwood elb (earliest stages of bending).. ;) :)...
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/Asiertxu/_Dogwood_ELB_/Mark_and_Asiertxu_comparative_LR.jpg)
Cheers and hope to see you next attemp at that soon...
Asier.
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Asier,
I was impressed with your dogwood bow. I am now on the look out for dogwood for bows now! My bowmaking firned here is as well so it is a race to see who gets a good stave first.
I think I need to make myself a non-stretch stringer. Looking at both your and my pictures it looks like the stringer has stretch a lot! Mine was nylon and believe it or not was just long enough to reach from nock to nock before I pulled the bow upwards!
My new 110lb warbow experiment has started. Ipe again, same basic stave dimensions but a little longer. This one will be bamboo backed with a bulletwood taper section in the middle. I'll go easy on the reflex this time. I'm undecided whether to put limited reflex into the whole bow or more in the tips. I may do both. maybe two inches all in but use rope to tie down so the reflex is slightly more at the tips than the centre.
The fun starts again!
Mark
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Hello Mark,
I've been really enjoying this thread and learning a lot, thanks. However I feel I should remind people that bows that appear recurved may attract unwanted attention at BL-BS and GNAS shoots. I'd stick to a semicircular reflex glued in. I also am reminded why I love self bows so much ;)
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Yeomanbowman,
Would a bow that had no recurve once braced be frowned upon?
I don't give a hoot what GNAS think as I joined the dark side (NFAS) some time ago and I can't be bothered to buy the right colour green clothing.
I occassionaly shoot target longbow with the West Kent Archery Society where it seems my abherent logbows are tolerated even if not quite BLBS. I will however make a zesty long stable none-recurved lightweight bow for that, just because it will perform better for that kind of shooting.
I would shoot a warbow at roving shoots where is doesn't seem to matter too much what is used. Usually I shoot with half a dozen friends in a large field and basically anything that is fun goes (you would be welcome to join us if you fancy a trip down to the deep kentish south one day!).
Now if I wasn't allowed to shoot it at Batsford that would be a different matter!
How are you doing? Still shooting heavy bows?
Mark
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Yeomanbowman,
Would a bow that had no recurve once braced be frowned upon?
I don't give a hoot what GNAS think as I joined the dark side (NFAS) some time ago and I can't be bothered to buy the right colour green clothing.
I occassionaly shoot target longbow with the West Kent Archery Society where it seems my abherent logbows are tolerated even if not quite BLBS. I will however make a zesty long stable none-recurved lightweight bow for that, just because it will perform better for that kind of shooting.
I would shoot a warbow at roving shoots where is doesn't seem to matter too much what is used. Usually I shoot with half a dozen friends in a large field and basically anything that is fun goes (you would be welcome to join us if you fancy a trip down to the deep kentish south one day!).
Now if I wasn't allowed to shoot it at Batsford that would be a different matter!
How are you doing? Still shooting heavy bows?
Mark
Of course you can come to Batsford, it wouldn't be the same without you, your part of the furniture there, BTW have you booked in yet, if not do it soon it's filling up quickly.
PS Sorry about your bow :(
Steve
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Yeomanbowman,
Would a bow that had no recurve once braced be frowned upon?
It would depend upon who you beat :D However, it would be acceptable for BL-BS as it is the braced profile that counts, not sure about GNAS.
And thanks for the offer, if I'm down that way you're on.
Waesail,
Jeremy
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Steve,
I guess you have to expect to fail if you're going to push the boundaries a bit. I am not sure that records would be eaten by a bow made just the same way as every other.
My Batsford form will be in the post first thing tomorrow. I now have some good thermals and a full set of Gortex. All I need is some waders and I'll be kitted out for the Sunday field shoot!
Jeremy,
If my bow had survived I think it would have shown no reflex or recurve, just a slightly stiff outer limb appearance in both braced and full draw shape. I think the advantage of the slightly recurved tips would be stiff tips that are also lighter and faster and therefore throw further.
One day maybe I will be able to prove this ;D
Would be good to see you and your mate one of these days, maybe in the summer. We have a nice long field in lovely country, can camp and it is very informal. It would be a bring your own beer and food ocassion though as shops are few and far between.
Mark
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Sorry duplicate post
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Asier,
I was impressed with your dogwood bow. I am now on the look out for dogwood for bows now! My bowmaking firned here is as well so it is a race to see who gets a good stave first.
I think I need to make myself a non-stretch stringer. Looking at both your and my pictures it looks like the stringer has stretch a lot! Mine was nylon and believe it or not was just long enough to reach from nock to nock before I pulled the bow upwards!
My new 110lb warbow experiment has started. Ipe again, same basic stave dimensions but a little longer. This one will be bamboo backed with a bulletwood taper section in the middle. I'll go easy on the reflex this time. I'm undecided whether to put limited reflex into the whole bow or more in the tips. I may do both. maybe two inches all in but use rope to tie down so the reflex is slightly more at the tips than the centre.
The fun starts again!
Mark
Hi Mark!!
Thanks mate and I´m very pleased you liked that Dogwood ELB I made!!...THANKS...
I hope your next laminated warbow turns out better than this one..;)...and looking at your laminated bow Mark I got real inspired and I´d like to try my first one some day.
I REALLY enjoy your bows!!
Cheers and keep up the nice job...
Asier.
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Experimental warbow 2 is glued up.
Ipe belly, Bamboo backed with a 23 inch tapered Bulletwood lam between the Ipe and Bamboo. I glued in 2 inches of reflex concentrated mainly towards the tips. Let's hope this one has a better outcome.
Mark
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Hope it goes well Mark.
Sorry if this is an ignorant question... is the 23 inch middle laminate only present in the centre of the bow (a food either side of the handle)?
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Simon,
Yes, the central lam only thickens the centre of the bow. I think the depth of the ipe belly stave is enough to not need a full length tapered lam. I'll see when I take the bow out the clamps.
Mark
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Well, eperimental warbow 2 is now in the tillering process.
Here are a few pics.
Here is the new bow in the clamps.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0563.jpg)
Here is a pretty bad picture showing the central tapered lam to stiffen the mid part of the bow.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0567.jpg)
Here is the bow on the tiller with a long string.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0568.jpg)
The bow seems plenty stiff enough. I think it will be fun tillering this one as the reflexed areas are stiff the handle is stiff and the bit in between isn't so much. I put on some temporary bulletwood nocks to allow me to put a tillering string on. I have done a little more wood removal and tidying up and the bow is just about ready to get to a low brace height. The bullet wood between the bamboo and ipe looks quite nice but the bulletwood nokcs look a little tarty to my eyes, like it is wearing lipstick instead of the normal conservative black horn!
Mark in England
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Well, I made a stringer from my old tillering string and made a mighty new tillering string. 20 strands of BCY 450plus should be strong enough for anything I will make.
At last I have been able to string the bow at a low brace height.
I can see that there is a slight weak spot around mid limb on one limb but overall the shape looks OK. Remove wood from the rest of the bow and see how it goes from there. The bow feels very strong at the moment but I haven't had a chance to put it on the tiller and see what weight it is. I feel I am building muscle just stringing it!
I think I will enjoy this.
Mark in England
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This is where the bow is at the moment.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0570.jpg)
The centre and outer limbs still need some wood taken off to weak areas in the mid limbs due to tapers, reflex, central lam etc.
Mark in England
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Looking good Mark. You got your work cut out there :)
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Marc,
I think this is the part of bow making I like best. Getting the bow to shape, getting it to bend more and seeing what can be got out of it. At the moment it is all I can do to brace the bow. I am not sure I could get a string on it if it was just an inch or so longer, my arms aren't long enough!
This is where I got it to today.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0576.jpg)
There is still more wood to come off the centre of the bow, some off the l;eft hand limb tip and more off the right from almost mid limb to tip. That limb seems to be stronger than the other.
Here it is at around 16 inches, pulling about 58lbs. The early draw weight is high, too high for me.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0575.jpg)
What I am doing at the moment is pulling 50 times to 16 inches, 25kg (58lns). Checking shape while doing so. When off the tiller post checking shape at brace height with my walky-talky stick, marking stiff areas that rock with a pencil and then using the bowyers edge to remove those pencil marks and finish with the file.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/110%20bow/100_0573.jpg)
This is quite slow and good exercise but gradually the braced and drawn shape is moving to where I want it. I feel failry confident that the weak mid limb areas will be up to the draw weight of 110lbs, I just need to reduce the tips and handle more to match them.
Mark in England
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Mark, I think you need to get it bending more in the outer limbs. Personally, my belief is that if you get it bending too much in the center it will take a large set out at the tips. So, get the limbs to do the most work first and when you get the bow to the last three inches of draw do you get the center to start bending very slightly. The more set the bow takes near the handle the more exagerated it will be at the tips, slowing cast a lot!
Dont mean to criticise but it looks like a beautifull bow with a lot of patential! Have fun!
David T
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Hi,
I would have to agree. I tend to work from the tips in and leave the handle to last.
The main thing for me is to see at least a slight movement along all of the limb on a loose string at which point I will get some form of brace however low and start the real tillering as it were.
Cheers,
Alistair (Jeremys mate!)
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David,
Yes, tips need to move more. What worries me slightly is the sudden change from stiff 23 inch handle area due the the addittional tpaered lam to where it is weak mid limb. The bulletwood lam looked quite thin and tapered by itself but seems to have somehow grown in thickness once in the bow! I want to remove some wood to get the bow bending a little into the area where the lam is get the bend smoother while I reduce the tips
Hello Alistair (Jeremy's mate) I remember you from Batsford. I think this is one I will learn on. Part of me wishes I had made this a straight bow, but the rest of me looks forward to the addittional challenge and wants to see how it comes out. I hope to be able to do some more on Thursday. Won't have much time at the weekend due to other stuff :(
Mark in England
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Hey Mark!
This one is gonna be REALLY interesting!.. :) :)...
Alll the best with this one and hope it turns out well mate...
Cheers...
Asier.
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Might be able to do a bit more on Wednesday.
Part of me would love to see what draw weight I could get, but the aim is 110lbs so I guess I got to keep to that.
The skinny little monster is braced and stretching the tiller string right now! The power of the Ipe/Boo combination really is amazing.
Mark in England
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How did the bow turn out? I am working my first ELB and it's 1/4" hickory backing glued into reflex on a bulletwood slat...I was enjoying your post thoroughly... :)
Bob
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The bow turned out OK. Sorry but I didn't take any pictures.
I took it to 100lbs at 30 inches. The tips keep a slightest touch of reflex at brace height which is so slight it is more stiff tips than anything else. At full draw the tips look stiff but any reflex is worked out. By the time the bow was fully worked in the unbraced profile was slightly reflex deflex due to a small amount of set throughout which notices in mid limb to handle areas.
The friend I made it for is pleased with it and is happy shooting it as it is. It seems to perform quite well shooting a field arrow more than 280 yards.
When he is ready I plan on reducing the length some to raise the draw weight to 110lbs which is what he wants. This in itself should be inteesting. According to Ascham it seems this was the way bows used to be made. Made overlong, shot in and only then finally reduced to length, draw weight and given final tiller.
Good luck with your bow.
Mark in England
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thank you for the reply...I enjoyed the reading of the thread.
Bob