Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PeteF on April 21, 2014, 10:24:30 pm

Title: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PeteF on April 21, 2014, 10:24:30 pm
I think I might keep these saw burn marks cause I'm thinkin they look pretty cool. Started to cut this board out and after some sanding I thought I might keep them lol. In case anyones interested the specs for this pyramid bow are 68" NtN, 4 1/2" handle, 2 1/4" fades, the limbs taper from 2" to 3/8" and they are 1/2" thick. I will be happy with anywhere from 45-55# @28 wherever it ends up.
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac299/like2shoot88/20140421_210310_zps33ff9252.jpeg) (http://s909.photobucket.com/user/like2shoot88/media/20140421_210310_zps33ff9252.jpeg.html)


And the rest of the bows progress
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac299/like2shoot88/20140421_201255_zps3006fdfc.jpeg) (http://s909.photobucket.com/user/like2shoot88/media/20140421_201255_zps3006fdfc.jpeg.html)
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac299/like2shoot88/20140421_201234_zps3519bab8.jpeg) (http://s909.photobucket.com/user/like2shoot88/media/20140421_201234_zps3519bab8.jpeg.html)
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac299/like2shoot88/20140421_201158_zps611f6fca.jpeg) (http://s909.photobucket.com/user/like2shoot88/media/20140421_201158_zps611f6fca.jpeg.html)
Ill post
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PatM on April 21, 2014, 10:31:08 pm
You'll need to say bye to them if you want that handle to stay on.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PeteF on April 21, 2014, 10:39:18 pm
They are burn marks. I did some sanding already, and if you feel it its smooth. The rest of the belly had them too, but went away after some sanding. I could continue to do so and they will go away if needed be. What would be the reason for the handle to pop off anyway?
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Blaflair2 on April 21, 2014, 10:45:54 pm
U need to leave a thicker "island" for the handle block. If it bends at all it's going to come off.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Hamish on April 21, 2014, 10:48:51 pm
The handle will probably be fine, but burn marks on a gluing surface are not best practice as the burn can mean the glue doesn't sink into the wood properly and provide a strong bond.
                   Hamish.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PatM on April 21, 2014, 11:15:21 pm
Wait, it looks like there is an island of wood that the handle lams are sitting on. It just looked a bit like there was a layer of the same wood as the main part of the stave because of the abrupt angle to the fades.
 The handle will stay on but the fades need more curve to them than those lumpy steps, if only for aesthetics.
 Just doing that will get rid of the burn marks.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: bubby on April 22, 2014, 12:11:21 am
the handle will be fine, but you need to smooth out the transition in the fades, and she will lose most of the burn marks that way
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: mikekeswick on April 22, 2014, 03:47:29 am
Is that four separate lams you've used to build the handle up?
Or three on top of the original board?
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: DarkSoul on April 22, 2014, 04:35:44 am
You still need to tiller this bow, so you will have to take wood off the belly of the bow in order to get a decent tiller. So you cannot keep these marks. If you like this pattern, just use a sharpie or some paint to  create similar markings on the finished bow.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Badger on April 22, 2014, 05:25:13 am
  I think you need to change your saw blade so it doesn't burn through the wood. Saw marks on a bow will only look good to you.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Peacebow_Coos on April 22, 2014, 05:38:35 am
+1 Badger except Me, I'd draw them on though after I made sure that baby was pulling even, but I worry about looks less than functionality!  They would be a nice start for some artwork.  The ol'e table saw burn! 
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PeteF on April 22, 2014, 08:56:12 am
They are 3 - 1/4" pieces glued to the original thickness of the red oak 1X. So its 3/4" of solid wood followed by 3 - 1/4" pieces of maple and oak. Did the cutting on a dull band saw, as well as the table saw as you can see lol so the fades didn't come out as curved as I wanted them to. Lesson learned! The last pyramid bow I did needed hardly any tillering, so I was hoping this would go close to the same way. Although its probably not good practice to start a bow with a hope of how it will go lol. Good idea though DarkSoul that If I have to get rid of the marks to draw new ones as a start to a cool design
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: hunterbob on April 22, 2014, 10:18:30 am
I like the looks of the marks . To bad it wasn't in the wood itself.  My opinion is you should of never had saw marks in it anyhow . I do all mine with hand tools. I would take a rasp to those faded to.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: blackhawk on April 22, 2014, 10:29:03 am
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but theres no beauty seen there in my eyes...no offense  ;)
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PatM on April 22, 2014, 11:02:01 am
You can't expect a finished fade with a bandsaw even if you can execute a nice curve. Don't shortcut your bows to death.
 A few minutes with a rasp and scraper will bring them back  into a nice profile. It sounds like you want to just cut out a bow and hope it's pretty much done.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Dances with squirrels on April 22, 2014, 11:21:09 am
"Don't shortcut your bows to death."

I like that.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 22, 2014, 11:22:29 am
Pat said it. Saws cut square, rasps don't. Can you see how the belly of the bow dips down in thickness right as the fade starts up on the left side? That small area will totally dictate the fate of that entire limb. The rest of the thickness will need to be equal or lesser than that dip, or you have a hinged fade. By the time you smooth that area out and get a nice fade transition you'll be even thinner. Saws are cool, I use mine often. The key is to leave PLENTY of stock to remove with a rasp later.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: bubby on April 22, 2014, 02:45:40 pm
you cut it on a tablesaw like in my build a long, you need to remove those kerfs the saw left if you want the burn marks some will stay depending on how much sanding ya do, I don't leave them, and the consenses is no one else would either but it's your bow so finish accordingly , the fades need to be a smooth transition and no square edges
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PeteF on April 22, 2014, 03:12:58 pm
yes i cut it just like in your build along. IMO the point of the board bows at least to me is a quick cheap bow to the specs of myliking. If i want to take my time and do it right I will go in the woods and chop something down. Just the way i feel about the whole shortcuting thing
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 22, 2014, 03:19:47 pm
I can respect that opinion Pete, we all have one! But consider this. How can you make a cheap, fast board bow to your specs if the the "bow" fails due to short cuts? Now your back square one and your quick spec's still haven't been met. Boards or staves need love to become bows. Its not about the materials as much as it is the methods.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PeteF on April 22, 2014, 04:26:40 pm
Did a little bit of tillering and worked into a full draw. So far so good. Got the wife to take a pic. Who else gets an eye roll when they hand their wife the camera for a bow pic lol

(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac299/like2shoot88/20140422_150330_zps9996a0b6.jpg) (http://s909.photobucket.com/user/like2shoot88/media/20140422_150330_zps9996a0b6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PAHunter on April 22, 2014, 04:43:05 pm
Totally get the eye roll.  Started asking my 4 year old to do it but the pic angle is a little low.  Have to put her on a chair.  ;)  Looks good man.  What poundage did you end up at?  And is the top limb longer or am I crazy?
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 22, 2014, 05:51:55 pm
Those middle sections need to bend a good bit more.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: bubby on April 22, 2014, 06:42:10 pm
Pete the point of my build a long was to show an alternative to all hand tools or for guys with no access to a bandsaw, boards are cheap, but staves are free if ya cut'em,  I don't think they make a substandard bow and my board bows will shoot with the best self bow, I didn't cut corners in the build and I don't cut corners with bows period, that said man it's your bow finish it how ya want, if you think it's cool that's what matters,  mids do need to work more,
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: PatM on April 22, 2014, 06:55:09 pm
 Better to do the tweaking of the tiller as you work it to full draw, not hitting full draw and backtracking. You'll set those overworked parts and it will be harder to get the profile right after that.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: IdahoMatt on April 22, 2014, 07:07:39 pm
Better to do the tweaking of the tiller as you work it to full draw, not hitting full draw and backtracking. You'll set those overworked parts and it will be harder to get the profile right after that.

+1. You're getting there great job on you first.  The folks on here are trying to help you get the best bow possible.  They know what they are talking about :).  I would work the kids a little more
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: bow101 on April 22, 2014, 08:27:22 pm
Saw marks are a pain to remove when you only have a finishing sander and nothing else.  Gota build myself a mini drum sander or buy an orbital sander.......... :)   have no room for anything large.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Pat B on April 22, 2014, 08:43:43 pm
Those marks look like table saw blade marks.
 You should have plenty of wood to get your desired results but the fade area needs to "fade" from the static handle into the working limb, the transition. The fade area of any bow receives lots of stress as the bow is drawn because of the leverage of the limbs. A smoother fade area evens out those stresses instead of having it hit at the abrupt fade like in your stave. Try to make that transition as smooth as possible.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: H Rhodes on April 22, 2014, 08:49:09 pm
   I get the eye roll and a fair amount of disgruntled verbage at times, but she is warming up to a concept that there will be more bow pictures in her future.   It's just like that. 
   These guys are trying to help, but you have to realize that these are bow constructing zealots, and the mere thought of cutting corners or short stroking anything as special as a bow is just taboo! ;D  To my foggy eyes, it looks like you are closing in on a good tiller.  Someone told me that they can judge your tiller better if you go ahead and draw an arrow in your full draw pics.  Nock one up good and level for your next fd photo and your tiller will be more apparent.  There's my two cents.
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: bubby on April 22, 2014, 09:04:57 pm
The eye roll and the sigh are the reason I use the timer function
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: Weylin on April 22, 2014, 09:15:08 pm
My wife's a good sport with the picture taking. She even goes shooting with me sometimes now that I made her a bow.  :-*
Title: Re: Cool Saw Marks
Post by: mwosborn on April 23, 2014, 12:21:26 am
Yep I get an occasional eye roll - but usually she a good sport about it.  I did figure out how to use the timer feature on my camera - but sometimes getting it to full draw at just the right time is tricky.

Looks like the tiller is coming along - agree with the "mid limbs need some work" advice already given - go slow though!