Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: Zuma on May 05, 2014, 11:44:22 pm
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Who are and were your teachers, mentors?
Why are you here on PA?
It occurred to me today as I joyfully knapped another point on my deck and
contemplated my collection, that I was blessed.
In my awakening I mused about having more than one meaningful relationship with others that led the way for me.
Not just collecting, researching, knapping or other ancient skills
Well, then my mind wandered to the beginning.
Who, how , when and where did I get hooked?
One day my fishing buddie's brother was there as we pulled into the dock. He asked,
" Have you ever found any of these?"
In his hand, he had a awesome group of local (arrow and spear points).
Please acknowledge the relationship of folks that guided you.
Real names are not to important, but if you know they don't mind, please give them Kudos.
It's about those that have inspired us. No matter if they are still here with us or not.
If you have a story or a photo of a mentor-- please post it.
This thread is about them.
Thanks, Zuma
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I'd have to say that Jay Massey was my mentor. I never met Jay but I have two of his books he signed to me. That got me started in wood bow building.
I came on PA as soon as I got a computer. Many years ago I was reading a Traditional Bowhunter Magazine and saw an ad for a new magazine called Primitive Archer and immediately sent in a check for a subscription. Seems like that was about 6 months before the first issue of PA came out. Before I got my first computer I checked out PA on my work computer and when I finally got a computer I signed up on PA as a member and have been on ever since.
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hands down these fellas right here. Saxton pope and Arthur young. i read "hunting with the bow and arrow" when i was in middle school and was enthralled by the stories. later i read it again in my late teens. and here we are today. i think alot of ppl have these men to thank for modern archer as we know it today.
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p696/Bryce_Ott/popeandyoung_zpsbb96f4d6.jpg) (http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/Bryce_Ott/media/popeandyoung_zpsbb96f4d6.jpg.html)
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My step-brother, Eric Luse, got me into archery when I was in about 3rd grade. I thank him the most. He passes away in 2003 and I had a resurgence in the interest and went primitive at that point. Got a subcrip. to PA in 2008 and started knapping after getting on the forum in 2011, I think. Art Young and Saxon Pope are extreme heros, but I thank Eric the most for sparking the interest at a young age. There have been several on this site that I have mused from, but I don't want to swell anyones head so I'll leave the names out. ;)
Positively, dpgratz
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My Uncles. Lee and Jim in particular. They taught me most of what I know about tracking ,hunting , fishing , field dressing. etc, etc. I ran the bush for moose and deer with Jim from a very young age (great experiences, and some interesting stories) Lee was always the one to be a little more traditional. We'd be walking through the bush and he'd be foraging as we went, eating any number of things from trees and shrub, collecting leaves for tea . He made his first muzzle loader from the steering column from a model "T" .
As for the Archery? I think I got the bug when my brothers friend came over with a bow like object that he fashioned from a sapling. I was 3 or four at the time. Fascinated ever since.
While we are talking about it, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the mountains of inspiration gleaned from the members of this site. Thanks everyone! Newbie or "Old Hand", the bows posted here are all a source of info .
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Thanks for the great contributions. I have enjoyed reading them and
checking out the clothing vintages. I need to find my pics.
Please post more if your memory is jogged.
I somehow remember having a bow with suction cup points. A present for a birthday I think.
Later on it was an inexpensive fiberglass bow shot in the back yard.
Our neighbor Frank Montgomery introduced me to the 1956 NJ state archery champ. Ed Chevernak..
They worked together. Ed had hunted with Howard Hill. I bought a Bear Grizzly and a dozen 4 fletch arrows made by Ed. We shot targets with the Musconetcong Bowman and I hunted with Frank until I joined the USAF at seventeen.
Great memories.
Zuma
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In fifth grade I got my first pellet gun. I went crazy on chipmunks in the woods north of my house. This is how I learned to skin. Once again taught to me by Eric Luse. I still have many of the skins. Several years later when I started trapping, Ed, the guy I sold hides to started buying whole animals and told me he skinned them himself cuz most folks cut holes in them. I started skinning for him for trade items, arrows, traps etc. and this went on through my high school years. I was using training wheels at this time though. :-[
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My real teachers and mentors were my parents who took me, my sister and my two brothers to scores of historic and prehistoric sites in Texas, New Mexico and Oklahoma (and beyond) during my childhood. We probably stopped the station wagon at every historical marker we ever saw. That sparked my interest in all things dealing with American Indians and the Old West.
Fast forward to college where I took an archeological methods & techniques class and learned about flint knapping for the first time. I suppose beyond that my first real introduction to knapping was Waldorf's book on the subject. The first good knapper I ever met was Bob Thomas of Arkansas. His knapping was (and still is) inspiring, but I wouldn't really call him a teacher. He did teach me a few things however, mostly to try and get good! After that I knapped with a particular buddy for years, honing my skills. I haven't met many knappers in person and I haven't been but to two knap ins, but there are way too many inspiring knappers who are willing to tell everything they know to count. Good folks.
The first time I ever knapped was in 1980 and I used a flake I found and a nail padded with masking tape. I'm still knapping today and I probably have a hundred points laying around, sold only a few and gave away lots.
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The stories of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett most likely started my journeys
I took to the woods and streams soon as I could walk ,spent more time outdoors than in ever since I could walk only came in to eat or watch those type shows in black and white back then!
A man named Bob Post would take me hunting trapping and fishing when he would go which seemed to be most days and nights !
A neighbor man named Murry Woods taught me to shoot muzzle loading guns , he was a cousin of Anny Oakley
Ray Stahl really got me launched forward into archery
He owned Stahls archery and roseoak bows we built many bows and put together a lot of arrows
That is just a few of the folks that inspired me , and that all happened before I was even old enough to drive
It has been a good ride with many folks to numerous to mention along the way !
By the mid 80s I had kinda slumped out of archery do to all the gagetry and gimmics that were dominating the scene but one day I picked up a mag that had a add for a new Mag called Primitive Archery and was off and running again , the third issue of that Mag had a add about a new shoot called the Marshall Primitive Archery Rendezvous !
That shoot brought me full circle restored me to what I had longed for and was missing I owe much gratitude to it and the folks there , it would be hard to separate me from it and I will work to keep it going for as long as I have breath Passing it on is what it is all about
Thank you to all who have helped pass on the traditions
You are considered my family
Guy
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My mentor in most things was my Dad. He was a Chaplain in the National Guard and he spent a lot of time training in Grayling, MI. Being a Chaplain he worked with a lot of the locals through churches and events. He got to know a lot of the Bear Archery employees through this. When I was about 10 he took me to the Fred Bear Museum in Grayling. Oh wow, was I impressed! I signed up in the Fred Bear Sportsman's Club while there and few a weeks later on my birthday I had a brand new recurve in my hand.
He and I spent so much time together hunting and just shooting those recurves. I had no idea what all I was learning, I was just having fun. Now I have come full circle teaching my kids about all sorts of things. They both learned to shoot with that same recuve BTW. The last conversation I had with my Dad was about my son's (his only grandson) first ever deer season. My Dad passed away on the last day of deer season that year. I wish I could have spent more time in that conversation .....
My Dad was much more of a woodworker than an outdoorsman and through that the bow building bug set in on me. Many thanks go out to a number of folks on this site who helped and continue to help me in that journey!
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Awesome replies folks. Awesome
Dalton I got my first instruction from D C's book "The Art of Flint Knapping"
back in the mid eighties. At the Natches Mound Complex gift shop.
I was lucky enough to meet him a few years ago at Flint Ridge.
He is a real nice man. We talked more about Naval battles than rocks. lol
Zuma
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Daton F. Statts,
My first mentor in the world of archeology. One dedicated, patient man.
Dayton was avocational but the pros always called on him.
Dayton is on the left.
And the pros were always ready to give Dayton a hand.
Below is Herbert Kraft my first professional idol giving Dayton a
hand with a burial find in NJ.
Zuma
shoo, finally got the photos correct
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My Father for the first bows and support, my great grand father for just holding and looking at his hand made ELB, Quiver, and arrows from the early Howard Hill days, Boy scouting and our old local archery club, The old Fred Bear and Ben Pearson hunting videos, books by Howard Hill, Fred Bear, Glen St'Charles, Jay Massey, Fred Asbell, authors of the Traditional Bowyers Bibles and many more, Traditional Bowhunter Magazine, Primitive Archer Magazine, and many members of this forum. The road goes on forever and the party never ends.
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Nice post Little John. Poetic
Scott Silsby is inspirational as a knapper, hardstone master and Naturalist.
Even though he thinks the Fort Ancient giants were a possibility.
Hope we remain friends after this post. lol
Zuma
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I will have to say, two that I knew and one that I didn't.
My mother and father got me started in archery. I have been shooting a bow for 60 years.
My mother was disabled and had to use crutches from age 11 years until she died in my arms at 61 as I tried to save her. Mom had won several state archery championships during her archery career, walking every course using her crutches, all while raising 6 kids in a two bedroom home.
Dad's credentials are too long to list on here. He was nominated for a local sports Hall of Fame and we had to come up with hard facts to support the nomination. Dad won or placed in 300 archery tournaments, shot for Root Archery and shot for Bear Archery for 3 years and was on Bear's advisory staff for 3 years. Dad won the mid-west national championships in 57 and 58 that was held in Chicago.
Mom and dad owned and archery shop back in the 60's called Bear Archery shop. He closed the doors in 1968 while I was overseas in the Marines.
No-one knew how many deer dad had killed with his recurve. I have 109 arrows that he killed deer with but that wouldn't be the accurate count as he didn't find all of his arrows and he never used the same arrow twice to kill with. He did kill two fox and 3 bear.
The third inspiration is unknown to me. He was the maker of the first flint point I found while roaming the desert. That got me started in flint knapping and self bow making.
Dad and mom could have written a book about their lives and adventures.
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Jeb,
Your post is like a tornado, that took me on a ride.
Like a launched arrow shaft through time.
Not only extremely touching but magnificently inspirational.
My thanks Jeb This is just an abbreviation of the emotion you stirred in me.
Perhaps you should take up the pen.
Zuma
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As a boy, it was my Dad for buying me that first Bear fiberglass recurve and for always taking me to the library. From an early age, reading inspired me to get out in the woods. At about age ten or so, I read a book called "Everglades Adventure" about two boys surviving for a time in the glades and living off the land. Whoever wrote that book really messed me up as a kid! :D Fred Bear and the Herter's catalogs.... I remember pouring over those pictures of bows and wishing I had the money to spend for one of those curvy looking beautiful things. My Dad was a huge influence. I sure miss him. He loved to crappie fish and camp, but wasn't much of a real outdoorsman. He got me outdoors enough for it to have affected me. He loved woodworking and he took the time to teach me to love it too. My most vivid memory of him is the smell of fresh sawn lumber, sweat and the sight of saw dust gathered up on his hairy forearms. He would have really got into making bows if he had ever tried one. Boats were his thing. I don't really remember anyone influencing me to shoot a bow - it's just something I have always loved. I have hunted with a bow of some sort since I was a kid. I built my first selfbows about three or four years ago. Jawge was a big help and was one of my first mentors on line. His site was a big help for me. Later I found this site and have received so much inspiration to build better bows from so many of you that I don't know who all to mention. Pappy, Pat B, halfeye, Blackhawk, PearlDrums, bubby, and the list goes on and on - I guess Primitive Archer has been my big inspiration. At least it has stopped me from BUYING things to shoot and hunt with. Thanks guys. :)
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I've always been a Traditional Archer. Jay Massey piqued My interest in Self Bows and then I heard about a Guy In Flint (MI) that had bow classes in His Garage, by the name of Gary Davis. Went one time and I was hooked -this was cool stuff ! Then I met a fellow by the name of Wirwicki (We worked for the same Company) that said He'd like to go with Me - didn't think He'd make a Bow just wanted to watch. That was close to 25 Years ago - long story short, Matt & I ended up helping and working with Gary teaching classes at His Garage and different shoots and becoming very close Friends. The highlite for Me was to meet and talk with Jay Massey one HOT & BUGGY morning at a Michigan Longbow event - truly a class act ! I'd like to Thank Matt too, for being a true Friend and all the GREAT adventures We've had over the years ! Bob
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Thank you Mr Rhodes
Thank you Bob,
Some say, " A picture is worth a thousand words."
Few photos so far but the words are worth a Million.
Zuma
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Stories of Robin Hood when I was a kid :)
When I was older I worked with a guy who was a county level target archer who was a bit of a mentor. Stocky bearded bear of a man who gave the impression of being grumpy, sadly passed on now.
I was making my first decent bow and I took it into work to measure the draw weight/length on a big scale in one of the labs. Walking into work I met him. He snatched the bow out of my hand flexed it as if stringing it, paused for a second, said "Sixty pounds" thrust it back into my hand and stomped off.
That lunchtime i had it all set up and was slowly pulling it back and noting the draw weight and length... finally got it back to 28"
.... sixty pounds :)
Anther time working at work he threw a big pretend punch at me, I leant back as if I'd been hit and put my elbow through a glass door! Those were the good old days when you could have a laugh at work.
People often ask how I got into making bows. I reply, It's not so much that I started... I just never stopped.
We all make stick bows as kids... I'm just getting good at it now :laugh:
I remember trying to impress the prettiest girl in the village :-* when I was about 10. My arrows had nail points, so I shot a few yards in front of her as she walked along, sticking the the arrow into a telegraph pole. She wasn't impressed... she wan't my Maid Marrion.
That honour goes to Mrs Cat even if she doesn't shoot she's an honorary bowyer as I value her opinion.
Del
(My big Sis still knows the family and says that the "girl" still thinks she's the prettiest girl on earth ::) )
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Man I read all of these and just wished I could come up with one, I guess in my life their has been lots of folks and events that has molded me into who I am and the love I have for the outdoors and bows/arrows and primitive skills in general, loved it for as long as I can remember, just can't put a name one person. ??? :)
or even several, Wished I could, Love the stories yall tell some are very touching. :) :) Very cool. :)
Pappy
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zuma, The toughest was giving mom CPR. Dad called and said something was wrong with her. We lived a short block away so my wife (a nurse) and I ran to the house and found mom on the floor. My wife and I worked on her what seemed like forever until the ambulance arrived to take her to the hospital.. My wife rode with the ambulance and continued with CPR until they got the ER.
Mom was 61 years old.
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Del, is that how Robin Hood got the maid? By shooting shafts near her feet?
Will Tell was about as risky with his son.
Pappy from what I have read and heard about the Classic you and your wife are the inspirational ones.
Zuma
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I got a bow and arrow for christmas one year and was hooked. Davey Crockett was my idle but he didn't shoot a bow and arrow.
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I can't really say where it all began but what I remember clearest is an article written decades ago by a man who hunted with compressed wood shafts for buffalo.. Later I read that the shafts were called sweetwood. I enjoy making my own equipment and for a person to think of compressing wood was just too cool.
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Badger,
I think it is cool that folks INSPIRE us with gifts we like.
I'm easy, I even like fruit cakes. lol
longbowman,
sweetwood shafts. Interesting. I see you are new here?
Can you put time and place with some elaboration?
Thanks guys.
Zuma
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One day I typed in wood bows or something like that. Of course I stumbled on this site and the rest is history. That was a few years back. Learned a lot, still have much to learn and did not realize there was so much to archery in general. Its totally over whelming and a great hobby, something that I still wish I had taken up years ago.... :)
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i saw arnold schwarzenegger make a bow in the movie Predator when i was a kid, so went outside to make my own.
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Better late than never bow101,
I am sure you will pass it on with perspective.
Bowman, that movie made me shiver a bit and I was grown.
Do you still have the bow?
I will be Bauck! Oh yeah, Red Sonia (inspirational).
Zuma
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hahaha no, it was a twig and a boot shoe lace lol
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In regards to Zuma's request for more info: Sweetwood shafts were made from precut pieces of wood(sorry I don't know what kind) that was then compressed considerably. Once that was done they were then cut to size and rounded. No need to foot the shaft because the whole shaft was tough. Years later I talked to a student who did tests with compressed wood and he said a knife would just slide the piece and not cut in. Question: where are these shafts today when we need them? The co. is long out of business but why can't we reproduce it today? Something to ponder.
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Thanks longbow,
I wonder if it is Port Orford cedar? They were all the rage back in early 60's.
Compression straightened?
Zuma
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I have to say without a though that Pappy has been my mentor for the inspiration and direction of the Iowa Path! We are helping new people every month learn to make bows and flint knap with that direction.
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My inspiration was Tarzan. no joke
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My inspiration was Tarzan. no joke
i never doubted that for a second lol
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Per your request Zuma:
Jerry Wilson was a gifted and knowledgeable, practitioner of primitive skills. He made this gorget sporting twin warriors with flint blades and bows. It may be the last gorget he made as it arrived at my house in late December and he passed away in late winter.
Jerry worked at many public events demonstrating his primitive crafts. He taught me (and many others) a lot and I admired his skill. I was able to get started doing shell work thanks to his advice and direction.
Here's to our mentors who pass the torch!
As I look at my path to where i am today, I have many mentors.
Hunting/ fishing - dad and grandfathers
first bow and interest in archery - My dad
Hide Tanning - Bob Fox
First long bow ever made under Jeff Struberg
First Osage bow made under Gordon Holmes
Shell art - Jerry Wilson and Chris Crabtree
Stone Ax creation - Larry Kinsella
Cordage making and finger weaving - Jim Phillips
Sinew string - Patrick Blank (via PA)
As I look at a closet full of primitive items I can clearly see a whole host of people who gave of themselves. Today, I make intentional efforts to share the crafts I have accumulated. If I ever become fortunate enough to be on someone's list of mentors, well, then I have done what I am supposed to do. Pass it on.
cool thread.
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Any of you who have thrown out little bits of information have been my teacher. Even if you have made a post that was really bad info, that is still a good lesson. selfsufficient tyke is one of my oldest friends, and like a brother to me. He is a great guy, and builds lots of things. Guitar straps, Mocks, Bows, Kilns, Knives. Really whatever he sets his mind to. He makes great Buffalo Burgers, and good whiskey to go with. He is also a great fishing partner. I really do appreciate all of the info that is shared on this site. Some of the things I see just blow me away. Thanks again for all the lessons, and the escape from TV and sitting on the couch!
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A little more info about Forgewood shafts;
Forgewood is the registered trade name of all compressed wood shafts and arrows made by a unique process that was developed in 1947 by Bill Sweetland. Using much of the original equipment, Forgewood technology is now being used here in Alaska.
Forgewood shafts are made by compressing softwood, e.g. Mountain Hemlock, Sitka Spruce, etc. under controlled conditions. The density tapers from 3 times greater at the tip of the shaft to 1.8 times greater at the nock end. This produces a very slender 5/16 parallel shaft with very high cross sectional density, low wind resistance and amazing durability. Forgewoods have always been noted for extreme penetration and deadliness in hunting.
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iowabow, A deserved endorsement of Pappy. Hope to meet him some day.
Tim, I used to sneak into the movie theater as a kid to see JANE. lol
Thank you swampy. Most appreciated.
Jo Jo nice words for a friend. Wish he would post his burger recipe on
"Chow down from the woods and garden" thread. lol
Eric, great info on the shafts.
thanks, to you all
Zuma
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Thanks Eric on the info. Read the article once and over the years things got fuzzy. Funny how that happens.
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Well i'm on here a lot , but like to read more than i like to talk so here's a little about me.No one ever had to lead me to the outdoors,it was always a part of me. My parents had the good sense to buy me a shotgun when i was ten and mom would take me to which ever woods i wanted to hunt and pick me up in the evenings (thanks mom).Then in my teens i came across a book called THE SEARCH by Tom Brown j.r. , now here was a guy who was living the life i was dreaming of.Some of Toms stories are a little hard to swallow,but i have everything he ever wrote and fact or fiction i would rather read that stuff than the latest issue of Forbes any day (although Homer does make a pretty good furniture polish) Then one day i met Fred Bear, he was hangin on a peg in a JC Penny store in the form of a 53" Black Panther recurve.I proceeded to shoot the finish off that little sucker and pick up more bad habits than you could shake an arrow at, i dislike short bows to this day and get target panic just looking at a traditional target, but i was hooked. I shot glass for about ten years and killed a lot of game with them. Then one day i saw the first issue of PA,something about that cover shot with stone pointed arrow on a snake skin backed bow fascinated me,and it always will.
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My Grandfather and Great Aunt. I am lucky enough to have a very rich Native American history. My Grandfather's name goes way back in the Peoria tribe. My Great Aunt was the oldest living Peoria Indian in recorded tribal history. She lived to be 107.
They both, especially my Grandfather, taught me tons. Leather work, beading, tanning, smoking meats, NA food, stories of what life was truly like generations ago, the list goes on.
PA? Well, looking around on he internet, and found a brotherhood of people with similar interests.
I was always told that I was born a century or two too late, and found that there were a lot of me out there!
A big Thanks to my heritage and the wonderful folks here at PA!
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My Dad - gave me an old fibreglass bow when I was six, showed me how to make cedar arrows from split rail fences on the farm, how to use my jackknife to narrow the piece of cedar from the point to the back and fire-harden the tip, how to make a bow that would fire these arrows from the branch of a green apple tree when the old 15 pound fibreglass didn't have the ""öomph"to deliver the arrow. I guess you could say it got me "hooked". By the way, I still have that old fibreglass bow and my Granddaughters are now using it with my supervision.
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I'd have to say Dan Quillian. If probably not for Dan I'd likely be shooting wheels.
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Wow, Thanks folks for such great testimonials.
I really enjoy reading this thread. I go back and re read many posts.
Keep em coming.
Zuma