Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: JoJoDapyro on May 30, 2014, 10:41:29 pm
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Just signed up. I have been reading and seemed to catch the bug. I was a bow hunter 15 years ago, and then stopped. I moved onto Muzzleloaders, and then stopped hunting. I have never stopped fishing though. I am planning to start my first self bow, and had a few questions. I am planning on making it out of a stave that I cut. Would Siberian Elm, Russian Olive, Apple or something else be the best option? What tools would you suggest to buy? And the most important to me is, is there anything special to making a bow that will be in such a dry climate? I have read a lot of build alongs, but mostly from Bowyers from the mid west or back east. ANY help would be great. Thanks a ton in advance, and thanks for already teaching me so much.
Joe
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Utah is great for white woods, elm, hickory, pecan will all do great. As for tools, maybe you could give some idea how much you want to spend and go from there. I like draw knives,spoke shaves, rasps and scrapers on white woods. You will need a nock file, sand paper, a file to sharpen your tools and a stone. Maybe $200.00 could set you up nicely but you could get by for under $100.00 to start off.
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On your question about the dryer climate. Be sure and seal the wood on the ends, and possibly the back depending on the wood. The dryer air I would think might cause it to check or crack more so than it does here in the Midwest.
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I'm in Utah too. To start, get an axe and hammer to split the stave. A drawknife and a pocket knife and your good. You can find all these things at a garage sale or on ebay for less than $50 total. Russian olive is good. Serviceberry makes a good bow. Juniper makes a great bow with sinew. Other local woods chokecherry, mountain mahogany, scrub oak....... Juniper usually has no problems with warping. Serviceberry, chokecherry and other small trees do. Humidity gets under 10% around here. Heating vents in winter and ac in summer gets it even lower. Get a $10 humidity meeter and a $35 humidifier for one room in your house and keep the humidity between 40% and 55% and you will have none of these problems
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OK. Day one. I went to a co-workers house who cut down a large apple tree last fall. My friend and I got two good fairly straight 2 1/2 inch limbs (the co-worker cut the tree down and dragged it to the back of his property, so the wood has been drying since the fall). My friend had a water line break so we headed to Lowes to buy a fitting. While we were there I looked through all of the six foot Red Oak 1X2's. I went through about 25 boards and found only one that looked to be usable. So now the question is, Apple or Red Oak first? I'll go and take some photos to show the 2 options I now have.
To answer the tool cost question. I am fine with spending whatever it takes to get the right tools. Over time that is. I just want to learn the basics, even if both of these bows end up breaking, I am out $8 and what time I took to make them. But you can't learn without a few hitches here and there.
For tools I have the following. Axe, Hatchet, Several hammers, Rat tail files, a Rasp, a small pane, and various other small hand tools. Plus power tools that I don't plan on using unless they can be of use.
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I'd rough out the apple limbs with the hatchet first. They'll still be a bit wet, so they can dry a bit more after roughing out.
Then I would make my first bow from the red oak board. You'll need different tools for the board then for the staves. The axe/hatchet will be useless for the board. A good plane will be much better. You could consider buying a Stanley SurForm for about $ 15-20. Then maybe buy an additional rasp or file, depending on the ones you have right now. A card scraper (just a few bucks) is also essential. But since you have some tools already, think wisely about what tool to buy. Should it be a new tool or an upgrade for an existing tool?
The board is straight and it's easy to draw straight lines onto it. No need to worry about a curved back, wiggly surfaces or knots. You can just lay out the outlines onto the board and use a plane or SurForm to get down to the lines. Then switch to files/rasps to round the corners and remove the tools marks. Start tillering with the files and finish tillering with the scraper.
By the time the red oak board is shooting, your apple wood will be dry or at least drier.
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I need to adjust my phones camera settings. The apple limb is a little curvy also. Should I still split the apple limb? or wait for it to dry and then worry about it?
I spend one morning a week with my Dad. Looks like maybe tool shopping! I can really use new everything, it's just convincing the wife of it. But, she spends as much time as it takes to get in her car and pull out/in the garage, so I think I can sneak one by. She doesn't understand that more tools are better than less. >:D She did buy me new air compressor for Christmas though!
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You probably have most of the necessary hand tools, some sort of scraper would be good for fine tillering. I don't have the patience or wrist strength to hack mine out with a hatchet but many do, what takes me days with a hatchet I can do in minutes with the bandsaw. A bench sander is another great time saver.
As for the apple, how straight grained is it? Splitting it will make that obvious, most tends to grow really too twisted for bows, and a long enough non twisted example is unlikely.
Make your first one about as tall as you are. Most white woods will preform great in your dry climate. I'm not familiar with your trees, but white oak or hickory would be excellent. Around here these woods are at least a little hindered by our moisture, over there this wouldnt be the case.
Seal the heck out of the ends as quickly as possible after cutting, preferably have your sealant handy while cutting the tree. For white woods in most cases the wood right under the bark is the bows back. Remove the bark carefully, and seal that wood thoroughly. Its going to dry rapidly and that can cause cracks to form.
Most fruit and nut trees can make a fine self bow provided they are designed according to the wood you are using. Made wide enough even pine and poplar have become self bows.
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Welcome to pa!!!
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I haven't done a whole lot of work today, But I did learn that I need a better Plane. I debarked the apple yesterday (2ish hours) and clamped it to a metal pole to straighten the deflex. It is also S shaped, but the knocking points and the handle line up so I am not too worried. Plus, if I can make a working bow out of an S then I should be good with straight wood in the future. I then sat down and laid out my bow on the Red Oak board. I went out this morning and took the apple off the pole, and quite a bit of the deflex is gone. I then measured out the Apple. 72 inches end to end. at the handle point it is 1 5/8 thick, so I have a lot of wood to remove from one end. My goal from the apple build is to have a working bow at the end. I really don't care if it is 25#, as long as it works. My plane is needing to be readjusted about every 10 strokes. So that is on the schedule for tomorrow after work, along with some string wax. I had planned to get some tools today, but it turns out it was the first day of a local farmers market, as well as a birthday party and a graduation party. I have taken about an eighth off on the ends of my board so far, and it too a lot longer than I expected.
Is nylon ok for string material? I found a store that sells a Nylon bead working cord (TEX400) that has a breaking strength of 75# that came in 4 spools of 4 colors of green. I bought it as it was cheap to give it a try. I made an 8 strand reverse twist and it seems like it is the right thickness (from what I can remember), as well as really strong, and really doesn't stretch too much. The Loop end (Flemish loop?) is holding well. I am 300# and hanging it off of a bolt in my garage (Metal Beam) and putting as much of my weight I can hold it isn't budging. Thanks for all of the info. I'm bit bad. My wife came down and asked if "I was looking at stuff for that bow still", and that "She didn't know it would take up this much of my time".
A little bit more about me. I make furniture out of Pallets, Fish as many days a week as I can, Work in the garden "Like a little old man" and love my life.
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Welcome,looking forward to seeing some of your work. :)
Pappy
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Here is a photo of my board bow, as well as my first attempt at a string. I need a vice something fierce. I actually planed the shape with one hand, and one hand holding the board. I came up with the chair idea today.
OK, I downloaded a program and did it! Yay!
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Living in a dry climate is an advantage if anything faster drying wood
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Welcome aboard, and enjoy! I would not recommend nylon string, as it stretches. I would suggest, if you don't want to buy a spool of bow string from one of our sponsors, go to Wally World, or your local sporting goods store, and get a spool of power pro fishing line, in the 3o to forty, or fifty lb. range, and do your Flemish twist. I think power pro, fishing line is about the same as B-150. Good luck, and keep at it. Glad you are back into archery. Now after the bows, comes the arrows, and then the flint knapping, and bleeding. ;) It is all addictive, and you are in good company. There are a lot of fantastic bowyers on here, and they all are more than willing to help you along.
Wayne
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My hands are sore like they haven't been in years.
I will make arrows after I get a working bow. I just had a friend bring me a bag of Turkey feathers from a turkey he shot on Saturday. To say i'm hooked is putting it very lightly. Thanks for the Nylon info. I'll look into getting Dacron cord.
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I will make arrows after I get a working bow.
You'll need an arrow immediatly after you tiller is complete. O:)
Maybe even before >:D
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I don't have any idea of what spine weight I will need. I have feathers, now only to look at some local archery shops for glue on tips and knocks. And hopefully some bare shafts.
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I wouldn't waste my money on a surform, by a good Farriers rasp and it will make life easy removing bulk wood, has a very aggressive side and the other not so aggressive, a 6"lockback knife will work for a scraper
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It is getting close to tillering time. I have a basic understanding of how to, but am not educated on the ins and outs. Can anyone give a quick step by step? Thanks
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Here are some photos of the progress. Please feel free to give me pointers on what is good and not so good.
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Shorten the string to about 2-3" brace height, then post a pic with about a 12" draw
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OK. After work I'll do just that.
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First of all, welcome to PA! The red oak board bow is really good practice and some of the guys on here have made some really good bows from it. When I started I used everything I could get my hands on to make a string out of. I really like the para cored for the initial tillering even though it stretches a bit. But once I get it to where I'm braceing it I make a string for it. I was looking at your pic of your string and noticed that your twist on your Flemish loop was really long and the ends of your strands were all the same length. Try looking up "how to make a Flemish twist bow string" on you tube. There is a really good series from boarrior bows you should watch. And also google a Flemish string jig and you will find some simple plans on how to make a string jig. Good luck and keep posting pics come reading on here and the guys will help you get started. Patrick
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Thanks Patrick. That was my second attempt. It took me about 10 minutes to make two. The first is the first photo of the string alone, it was far too short. I made this one for the time being, but it is nylon (even though the place I bought it said it wasn't), I am going to make my next out of Dacron. I have also learned it is difficult to tiller a bow with a shaped handle. The bow seems to be bending through the handle just a bit. I also wanted to use deer antler knocks, but I decided I should just build a bow that works first, I can get fancy later.
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The handle thing is true. I learned to leave the handle flat on the belly side so it will sit in the tiller better. Also if it's a non bending handle just rough it out then tiller it then shape the handle later. If it is a non bending handle area and you have flex in it then you are bending too close to the fades. I'm no expert but this was my experience with that subject.
Did you check out the string video's I told you about? You will be able to see what I was talking about. Its also better to practice on other materials before you use your dacron that way when your ready to make an actual string for your bow you will have had some practice and all of your screw ups won't be so costly. JMO. Patrick
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Here are the photos of the bow strung at about 3 inches brace height, and then at a 15 inch draw. I did a lot of running today and didn't get to do any work on the bow. Close to the square on the left is what looks like some set in that limb.
Patrick, I didn't have a chance to look at the videos yet, I will, as soon as I get Dacron ordered. I will practice with Nylon before making my final string. After pulling this bow to about 25 inches and letting off, the string will sag passed the 5 inch mark, within about 5 minutes its back to 3. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. Nylon stretches a bunch.
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So you wanna make a bow huh?
Well you came to the right place. Welcome!
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JoJoDapyro, ok this is the time to SLOOOW down. First of all what kind of bow are you making? What are your dimensions? Is it a stiff handle bow or a bend through the handle bow? Have xnv smoothed out and rounded all the edges?
Do you have some sort of scale? If so I learned to never pull your stave on the tiller part the intended draw weight. Also when your pulling your string and you notice a spot on one of your limbs
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I do not have a proper scale. That is something I know I need. Thanks for the reminder to slow down.
The board is Red oak. It is 70 inches nock to nock. I have a 28 inch draw length. The draw weight really isn't important, I haven't pulled a bow back in a long time, and I'm sure not up to pulling 80, and this isn't a wheelie bow with an 85% reduction. I would be happy with #40. The handle wasn't supposed to be flexy, but it is. The profile is as follows. the handle is just about full thickness of 7/8, the handle is narrowed in width down to about 1.5, and ten inches between the flares (I know, how did I expect a stiff handle with it that thin and long?). It then flares out to full width for 10 inches, followed by a taper of I believe 1/8th per 5 inches, ending in 1/2 inch tips. The thickness is from 5/8ths at the flare to 3/8 at the tips. The sharp edges have been sanded with 80 grit to keep a splinter from lifting. I haven't touched the back wood at all (besides sanding the corners). Thus far the most modern tool I have used is a Razor knife, other than that I have only used 2 different sized planes, a hunting knife, a sureform rasp (total waste of money :-*) a small hand saw (like a hack saw but with a fine wood blade) a few different sized files, including a rat tail file to cut my string nocks, a pencil, a tape measure a speed square (its fiber glass so I guess its Modern too!)and an 8 inch C clamp. I actually shaped the bow without using a clamp, I would hold one end, and plane with the other (I then realized I could clamp a limb down to the chair and plane it, but that was after it was shaped!).
Shaping the wood was a tough sell with only basic hand tools (I can't call it a bow until it shoots an arrow). But it has been very therapeutic thus far, Time flies when you are deep inside a project, I have really no idea how long I have spent on it, probably close to 30 hours. I have learned a lot about my tools (one hunting knife will only shave wood one direction, whoever put the edge on it didn't do a very good job ;) ), and that my hands aren't as tough as I once thought them to be. I do manual labor for a living, so I thought they were tough from running a shovel, boy was I mistaken!
Where can I find a proper scale? Thanks again to everyone who has planted a seed, and fertilized it with little bits of experience from their own builds.
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I'm no expert, but from what you said sounds like you doing ok. The 1.5"x7/8"handle shouldn't be bending. From the looks of the pictures, it looks like to me that most of your bending is coming from the handle area and you are fairly stiff on the inner third of the limbs near the fades. You also have a hinge starting about 12" from the end on the left limb. Don't pull it any farther or you will get set. Put it back on the long string, you should be able to see what I'm talking about like that. Once you see a problem don't pull it any farther. Fix the problem them make sure you exercise the stave after every scraping session. Go slow and get yourself a 6" long block of wood that's really flat. Run it down the limbs while you have it on the tiller and you can watch the gaps between the block and the limb. The wider the gaps the more it is bending in that spot.
Use quotations and look up a build along called a "tillering gizmo" make yourself one and use it they work! But like I said I'm no expert and still a little green myself but that's what I would try to do if it was me. Good luck and go slow. Patrick
By the way look on amazon for your scale. That's where I'm going to order mine. Digital is not very good for tillering.
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Look right above the bow. I have a Tillering Gizmo right there! The handle is bending, as I exercise the limbs I can see it. I can see the hinge, I just need to get rid of it. Slow and steady. I will have to more or less take a few days off. I have some sprinkler repairs, as well as a party Friday night, and a vinyl project Saturday for a family member (I have a large vinyl cutter, I make stickers, stencils and cut out vinyl for shirts), and then 3 and possibly 4 stops on Fathers day. Run run run! Thanks again.
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jojo, going super slow is a nice idea but it can also make the learning super slow!!! I'm a tradesman that works with his hands all the time. I use power tools for most of my bows except a small hatchet to rough out staves.
My favorite tiller tool for board bows is a Dewalt power planer. No saw dust just small chips. I can use it with one hand and you can dial down to less than a 1/64" at a pass or hog off the hardest wood!! It takes less time to tiller a 3/4" thick board than to make the bow string and I'm good at making strings!!! I also use a Dewalt jig saw for cutting out bow profiles. I also use a right angle grinder with different grit flap dics for rounding edges, shaping handles and tillering staves. I wished I had started with the power planer on my first board bows!!!!!! Boards are a great way to learn this craft and much less expensive and time consuming. cheers fiddler49
PS, keep your long tillering string as short as possible!!! I usually make my bow string long to begin with and use it as the long string using an adjustable bower's knot.
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a sureform rasp (total waste of money :-*)
I understand why you say that, but still I disagree with you. I'm not a novice bowyer myself, yet I use my Surform quite frequently. It is just a poorly designed tool; its shape gives you the false idea that you need to use the whole surface of the blade and hold it like a plane with two hands. That's not how it works best for me. Instead, I hold it in my right hand (I'm right handed...I think this technique will not work if you're left handed) and the wood in my left hand, tip on the floor. I hold the Surform at a 45 degree angle to the wood! It will only have a contact surface area of maybe four inches with the wood. I hold the Surform not on either of the two ends, but about 2" from the tip. I make long strokes and am able to create a nice and even surface of the wood. It even works on wood with irregular grain, where a plane would tear out chunks. I use it after the hatchet or draw knife, to remove the bumpy surface and bring the wood to a defined width profile, up to floor tillering. The Surform leaves small grooves in the wood, which are easily taken out with a scraper.
That being said, tools will always be a matter of preference. If you don't like a Surform, I'm sure you can find other tools that will work better for you. Not a single tool is holy and they can all be replaced by some other tool. Some people use a knife for scraping, which I really can't understand myself. I'm also not the spokeshave kinda guy. Just a matter of preference.
You can buy scales very cheap at Dealextreme.com. It comes directly from China, and might therefore take about three weeks before it is delivered (free of charge, by the way). If you need a scale quickly, Amazon is a better, but more expensive option.
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welcome and good start, remember have fun w/this greatest of all hobbies >:D O:) ;D ;D ;D
chuck
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Kind of jumping out of order here, but how much on average do you lose with a artificial sinew string. It is polyester, from Tandy leather factory. I used about 8 feet on the first one and it ended up about 5 feet long. Any idea? too much twist? Thanks again.
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General rule of thumb for any piece of twisted cordage is that you'll end up with about 2/3 of what you started with. So in your case, when you started with 8 feet and ended with 5 feet -- that's 62.5%, which is pretty close to 2/3.
That's for a length of string that's reverse-twisted over it's entire length. If you twist just on the ends it won't be that much. For Flemish strings (that are reverse-twisted on each end, but not over the bulk of the middle section), it seems it's usually suggested to use 12-16 inches more than the bow length.
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OK, tillering update. The right (top) limb is slowly getting to where it should be, but I will let the pros judge it. Any input will be great. I'm still kind of in the dark of how it all works. I have removed quite a bit of wood from the right limb. Just to be sure it wasn't the placement I flipped the stave, In the photo with the clamp in the center of the string it is flipped. Thanks again.
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Kind of jumping out of order here, but how much on average do you lose with a artificial sinew string. It is polyester, from Tandy leather factory. I used about 8 feet on the first one and it ended up about 5 feet long. Any idea? too much twist? Thanks again.
My last B50 string which was reverse flemish for the full length lost about 1 inch every 7 inches. I think I started with 70 inches and 14 strands and ended up with about 60 inches. But I found it incredibly stretchy. My next string where I only twisted the ends didn't seem to stretch much at all when I pulled it, so I THINK it's my low level of skill that caused me problems. The full twist one was a bit like a spring ;D
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Go to your first post and hit modify the add tiller update to tiller update? to the title and then hit save. That might help you get a few more of the guys to check your tiller for you. I would still say to refer to earlier post and keep doing the same thing. But I'm not 100% sure. Patrick.
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Remember, if you have an area that is bending more than the rest don't remove any wood from that spot until you get the rest of the limb bending in uniform. If you have one limb that is not bending as much as the other. Remove wood in the same fashion from that limb until it matches the other one them proceed on both limbs. Exercise the stave between each scraping session, by pulling it no farther than you did on the tiller. Pull it at least 30 to 50 times before you recheck your tiller. Patrick
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Thanks again Patrick. It is hard to stop, and not just keep going.
I learned something else today. Hobby Lobby sells Tandy Leather Factory artificial sinew cheaper than Tandy leather does. Kinda strange, but with their membership program it makes stuff really expensive unless you are a gold member. I made another string for this build, as I didn't like how much that nylon was stretching. The artificial sinew did stretch, but just once, and has stopped.
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In your last pic the left limb is only bending mid limb and more than the right limb,and right limb is stiffer than the left....and shorten up your long string to where its pretty much about touching the handle...
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Like Chris said,stay off the mid left limb and get the right bending a little more then work on the first 1/3 ond outer of the left until it catches up mid mid limb.
Also shorting the long string will give you a better look at what is is going to look like low braced. :)
Pappy
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I think I need to put a different color up behind my board as well. Using a tillering gizmo the left is bending almost the same all the way to the nock. The right is a lot stiffer, I have taken a lot (about 10 take downs worth, or a 32nd) off that side. The right also is thinner by close to a 16th than the left.
I will shorten up the string and continue tonight. I am also going to make a longer gizmo as well. The first was supposed to be 6 inches long, but while drilling it, it split in half, so it's only about 4. I can see there is a slight hinge on the left, but the gizmo tells me i'm crazy, I'm glad it isn't just me that sees it.
Thanks Pappy.
Going slow is not my style, that is why I fly fish. :laugh:
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There is a red oak board bow buildalong on my site.
Welcome!
Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/boardbowbuildalong.html
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I did away th the pencil in my gizmo and just use the 6" block. I just watch the difference in the gaps between the block and the limb.
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I wouldn't waste my money on a surform, by a good Farriers rasp and it will make life easy removing bulk wood, has a very aggressive side and the other not so aggressive, a 6"lockback knife will work for a scraper
i agree 100%
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Perhaps a slight set back. I built a bow stringer as shown on one of the how to's, and I guess my leather selection wasn't the finest. While attempting to put my string on with a 1' brace height, the leather tore, so not only did I basically dry fire the dang thing, but when it came off of the tiller tree it hit a nail, and slightly scarred the back of the bow. So my question is, do I need to back the bow if the back has a very slight indentation on the back where it struck the nail? I haven't drawn the bow, and don't plan on it until I get the word from the pros. Thanks again.
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lets see a pic of the damage. It might not be that bad from the description.
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Dude why didn't you come get some of my saddle leather ;D
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Oh sure, now you tell me lol. I will tomorrow if we go. This stuff wasn't thin, just not the best I guess.
The Scar isn't a break in any of the wood, but it is a small dent, I'll post a picture tomorrow, I'm too lazy to up load and resize it now.
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Sorry for the delayed post. I have been busy with work, birthdays, and getting ready for guests from out of the country. Here is the photo of the small dent in my board bows back. My question to recap is does it look like it is bad enough to need to back the bow? Thanks again.
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So I have been scraping away, and cant seem to figure this out. Let me know what step to take next. The left limb is the bottom, and seems to have a hinge. Both limbs twist, the left limb twists back, and the right limb twists forward. Thanks again.
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Ok, so as far as the back having the dent, if your worried about it put a backing on it like a brown paper bag. It's not too bad you could steam it out with a damp rag put over the dent them use a hot cloth iron and it will make the dent swell out. Them you could lightly sand it. Them wait a few day's for it to dry back out.
If you think you have a hinge do not remove wood from that area at all until the rest of the limb is bending evenly.
If your limbs are twisting length wise check the thickness from side to side, you may be scraping crooked. Make sure you are scraping evenly. I will look for a picture on a post of mine that explains this really simply.
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This was posted by Wiley as a response to one of my simular questions,
"I assume that as you noticed it when you put it on the tillering tree your noticing this twist when you put stress on the limbs.
If it only shows up when you pull on it, one side is weaker than the other, the direction it is twisting is the weaker side, weaken the stronger side and it should stop twisting. If it's there without being on the tillering tree, it's more ofa heatcorrection.
Here is a helpful little image i found."
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w668/lebhuntfish1/Mobile%20Uploads/twistedtip_zpsca10lnxd.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/lebhuntfish1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/twistedtip_zpsca10lnxd.jpg.html)
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Thanks. I assume it is because I am scraping crooked. As the limbs twist the same direction as the bow sits back down in my lap.
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Yes, if you don't have a vise. Try clamping it down on a table and keep the back supported by said table. That way you can apply even pressure to the entire limb and you can see what you are doing better as well. Take a few scrapes off the stiff side then recheck your tiller keep doing this till both limbs have straightened out and you bend is even again.
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A few questions this time. The board seems to be a bit stiffer than I had planned. Also upon working on it yesterday I noticed a small pit close to the back on the side of one limb. Will planing off this pit save the bow, and will reducing limb width also reduce total poundage? I would say it is near 60 to 70# at 24 inches at a 6 inch brace height.
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Yes reducing the width will lower poundage, bow wood removal on the working portion of the limb will reduce the bows draw weight. It will also effect the tiller as well, be very careful.
How how wide are your limbs now? If your pulling that kind of weight with an unbacked board bow, that's pretty heavy in my opinion. If you want it that heavy you should put some kind of backing on it. As many issues as you are having with blemishes on the back I would back it anyways! Get you some brown paper bags and back it with that, they are cheap and seam to work well. JMHO, Patrick
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This is the side profile of the limb. My limbs are 1 3/4 wide at the widest, down to about 3/8ths at the nocks. I don't want it to be that heavy, but that is how it has turned out. The thickness of the limbs is the full 3/4 through the handle (with 1/2 inch added) down to about 3/8th at the nocks. I feel like it could be thinner from side to side on the limbs, this pit is about 2/3 to the nock.
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I would like to see a picture of the bow in its current state on the tiller tree. Let's see what the tiller is like at this point.
If the bow is really 60-70 pounds at 24" (only a scale will tell you exactly where you're at), it is probably too heavy for you. Or are you comfortably shooting that weight? And what is your true draw length? Not 24", I presume. A red oak board of 1¾" wide has a reasonably safe draw weight up to about 60 pounds. It you would like a higher weight, you should go wider, say 2". So with your current, guesstimated draw weight, I would NOT reduce the width, although that is in principle a good way to lower a bow's draw weight. Instead, I would scrape the belly to make the bow slightly thinner and loose some weight that way. I say: SCRAPE the belly. Do it carefully, with little wood removal at once. Don't use aggressive tools like a plane, draw knife or coarse rasp. Recheck tiller often. It also appears that you are having slightly sharp corners. It is important the all four corners of the limbs are nicely rounded.
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I'll get one tonight when I get home. I do not want the bow that heavy. The tiller is still off, as you can see in the photo with it braced. The upper limb is bending a lot less than the lower. I would be happy with the bow at 40# at the lower end. I have been working the belly with a cabinet scraper, and I sanded the edges right after this photo was taken. In the end I just don't want to break it until I can at least say it is a Bow, and not just a bow shaped board. I'll take a few more photos of it tonight with a full mark up on its layout. Thanks for all of the advice. Running into problems I guess is good for a first build, as I can learn to work those out on this first go round. I have 2 Osage staves I traded from Fred for my next few builds. I already love that wood. It shaves like a dream.
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I would like to see a picture of the bow in its current state on the tiller tree. Let's see what the tiller is like at this point.
If the bow is really 60-70 pounds at 24" (only a scale will tell you exactly where you're at), it is probably too heavy for you. Or are you comfortably shooting that weight? And what is your true draw length? Not 24", I presume. A red oak board of 1¾" wide has a reasonably safe draw weight up to about 60 pounds. It you would like a higher weight, you should go wider, say 2". So with your current, guesstimated draw weight, I would NOT reduce the width, although that is in principle a good way to lower a bow's draw weight. Instead, I would scrape the belly to make the bow slightly thinner and loose some weight that way. I say: SCRAPE the belly. Do it carefully, with little wood removal at once. Don't use aggressive tools like a plane, draw knife or coarse rasp. Recheck tiller often. It also appears that you are having slightly sharp corners. It is important the all four corners of the limbs are nicely rounded.
Well said buddy! 8)
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Here are the requested photos. First is braced at 6 inches. Second is 20 inch draw (I don't want to push it to 25 with the pit). 3rd is the bow looking at the back.
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Next is the with at the widest point. 5th is width at the nocks. 6th is thickness of the bow at its widest.
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Last is the width of the nocks. (Thickness) I can clearly see the issue with the right (Top) limb not bending well. The issue I am having with it, is that I fell I have worked that Limb to death. The only work I have done to the left (bottom) was attempt to get rid of a hinge about 2.3 out from the handle, and to eliminate twist. So basically I need to reduce the draw weight of the bow. I just get the feeling that pulling it passed 26 at its current weight will break it. The only way I can describe the feeling is to say I can just feel it in my gut that any more and it will break. It is tough to pull it with the long string to put the short string on with 2 hands. I am very happy with the overall feel of the bow when it is strung. It feels light enough to carry all day, and pulling it what little I have feels right as well. The limb twist is all but gone. All I am am worried about now is reducing the draw weight, and getting it to pull to 28. Thanks again for all the time you guys have taken to teach me the ways of the bowyer. I am having fun, problems and all.
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Joe, do you use a tillering gizmo? I think it's looking pretty good and agree with some others that you need to remove wood from the depth in certain areas instead of the width to drop the weight. Again you need to round those edges on both the back and belly throughout the entire limb length. That will alone reduce a little weight and make it a lot safer to continue.
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I do use a gizmo. I measure the deepest bend on the left limb, and then mark the areas on the right that need wood removed. I only asked if I could also remove some width to remove the small pit in the left limb. Other than that I am happy with the overall width. That, and why do I have one flat limb, and one good bending one?
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Set the gizmo on the limb that is bending the most leave it alone and then check that same depth on what you consider the flat limb. That "should get you there".
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OK, besides some oil, a handle wrap and a elk horn rest it is done. I'm gonna have to calle her Bossy, cause I sure milked the life outta this one. I finally said enough. I just took it off the wall, measured a 1/16th at the nocks, down to just shy of a 1/4 6 inches from the handle, and went to town with the draw knife. It was getting done tonight, even if the result was a broken board. Blood sweat and tears. Hours of wasting time. Here she is. I honestly haven't even tillered this yet. I d'ed the belly, sanded it, exercised it, strung it, exercised it some more, and pulled it to about 27. I'm thinking it is about 45#, but without a scale I am not too sure. First is it at brace height. Second is it at 25 inches.
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You know what, that there looks pretty damn good. I'm not saying it's perfect but you did a formidable job. Keep t up. I've got a couple more staves for you to experiment with.
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It could use a little tillering. I am just impressed that it turned out that close for eyeballing the removal. It is a lot lighter to pull. Thanks Fred. Now I can move onto working with ome real bow wood, and not just a board.
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Man that is looking good,little stiff mid 1/3 of right limb but other than a little touch up there is looks fine. :)
Pappy
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That's a pretty good looking bow!
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yeah what pappy said 8 scrapes there would help but look's pretty darn good jojo
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Thanks for the kind words. I scraped the one side and just about got that bend right. One Issue I noticed is even with a similar bend, my left limb bends 1.5 inches lower than the right. I then noticed that my handle extends toward the right (Top) limb about the same amount. Could the stiffness from the extended handle cause that? I am gluing on some knocks, so I should get it all done except for oil tomorrow. I also got it pulled to 30.