Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on June 06, 2014, 10:18:25 pm
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I figured it will do this as a build along, my log is still pretty wet so it might take awhile to finish. I have a 1/4 log of very dense pecan wood with a fairly low crown. Bark is still on and it appears I will have one good size knot but otherwise pretty straight.
My plan is to clean up the log and reduce it to 1 1/4" thickness. I will steam it for a couple hours and deflex the handle area, at the same time I am deflexing the handle I will add enough wood to build it back up to about 2" thick.
Next step I will steam the limbs and form the recurves and reflexed areas hopefully similar to the Mark St Louis bows that I have not been to successful with copying in the past.
At this point I will put in a hot box and dry for a couple of weeks.
Out of the hot box I will get basic tiller established, heat treat and then proceed with tillering.
Basic plan is 3 1/2" wide 3/4 the way down the limbs tapering to 1/2" tips, I will leave it wide through the curves to hopefully stableize any twisting at brace.
Basic design is 8" stiff handle and fades, about 3" deflex going into reflex and recurves 4" behind the back of the bow, hopefull will finish with 2" set back. Tiller shape, bend will graduall increase as it approaches static recurves. Projected mass about 39 oz.
I will start posting pics tomorrow, if the bow won't give me 135# I will just get what I can.
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I hope you beefed up your tillering tree >:D
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135 pounds??? HOLY CRAP... If you want to sling around 135 pounds, I'll send you my wife!!!
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135 pounds??? HOLY CRAP... If you want to sling around 135 pounds, I'll send you my wife!!!
That sounds like a deal!
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I don't even have a scale that goes that high.
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cool, good luck badger I know some of us are going the opposite direction with the challenge
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8) Watching this!
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135 pounds??? HOLY CRAP... If you want to sling around 135 pounds, I'll send you my wife!!!
I could send you 1/4 of my wife instead. ;) Steve, you are scaring me. This will be awesome.
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At my normal r/h I have I think osage would be a better wood and much easier to work but I think if I can get the hard pecan down to 6% it will really shine.
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These threads are going to settle a lot of arguments. The "can u make a heavy bow from" etc etc questions can just be directed here.
Good show.
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Sounds like you are going to steam the limbs as well. I wouldn't do that.
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Steaming the deflex in the handle is going to be tough Steve. I've done a few and it is extremely hard to steam them without introducing some twist, even a bit will throw you tip alignment off.
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Underlays needed on the statics Steve? That's a lot of weight trying to un-curl them.
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I wouldn't bother with the deflex at all. The limb width should handle the weight increase. A straight through the handle recurve handles high weight at that length and draw with just two inches of limb width.
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All interesting comments:
Mark, how would you induce deflex into the handle, I have never attempted to bend anything that thick with dry heat and haven't had much luck bending pecan with dry heat period. I have thought about cutting a series of little v's into the bottom of the handle and then putting inserts in them the width of my saw blade.
Pearl, I plan to make them about 25% thicker than a 50# bow and wider, the limbs I plan to make the same thickness as a 50# bow but a lot wider.
Pat, I feel like the deflex in the handle gives better string angles and less stress at brace even though I still have high string tension.
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Something I have done in the past with relatively green staves is just to slowly crank them down over a period of several days. Maybe I will try this first.
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Here is the stave I am using, the more bark I remove the worse it looks, I may have to change staves.
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Can you point out what you don't like please?
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Splice it Steve, that's what I would do.
Seems to be some discoloration under the bark
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So that brown mark isn't bark he hasn't removed yet?
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I started the deflex process the old fashion way, wood still has a lot of moisture so I will use rubbers to pull it down over a period of several days. Once I clean up the staves I will show the trouble areas. I don't want to use a premium stave for this one. I started off with a 2" block and every few days I will put a slightly thicker block until I have about 4" deflex at the tips.
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Mark, the cambium and some of the bark is still on, I won't remove the cambium till it get just a bit dryer. My big knot is still covered with bark. I hate how wide this bow is I am tempted to let the handle area bend a little and narrow it down a bit.
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I think your going to need that width Steve. That's a lot of weight for a "short" bow. Im thinking stability wise.
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Yea Pearl your probably right.
Mark, should I have the tips touching the board with a 4" spacer under the handle? I was thinking to spread the deflex over about 12"
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Honestly Steve I don't think you will need more than 2 1/2" in width. If you go too wide then all you'll get is a knife edge on the side of the limbs.
The advantages of using billets is that you can do much of the prep work to them before gluing them up, like adding reflex and bending the recurves. The disadvantages, in the case of a selfbow, is the splice being exposed at the handle.
Having the limbs straight at this point means you're going to to need a bit more than a 4" spacer beneath the handle. If you look at the picture of the one I posted, http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,46138.0.html, the braced picture shows the limbs as being relatively straight and that is with a 6" brace height. I think you will need 8" to 10" under the handle
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Mark, I couldn't find that bow, would you mind posting it on this thread. I plan on using that as a model at least to some extent. If I do another one I will probably go with a splice. My crown is pretty flat on this stave but as you say if it starts getting thin it aint doing much anyway.
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Steve
I included the link to the bow in my last post
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Deflex Jig
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Deflex jig loaded
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I thinnned out the center 12" of the bow so it will be the only part to take deflex hopefully. I am using multiple inner tube strips to apply several hundred pounds pressure to each limb tip and hopefully it will gradually pull it down over a few days. I will then let it sit for at least a week in this position and will hopefully have about 6" deflex at the tips. Not as much as Mark recomended but it should help. After sitting for about 1 hour it gained an additional 1" from when I first wrapped it so seems to be miving pretty fast. I have come back the next day and found staves broken in half using this tecnique so I hope it doesn't happen here.
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Should be interesting Steve. How long is the stave right now?
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Should be interesting Steve. How long is the stave right now?
Yes.... and what radius are you going to use for your recurve?
Thanks,
DBar
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After sitting for a few hours the tips have only about 1" to go before touching, this will give me 7" and I will hopefully net 6".
Mark, the stave is 66" so no length to play with.
I really don't know what radius I will use, I plan to start reflexing the bow a little inside of mid limb and then just give the tips a nice flip, probably about a 4" radius, I have several recurve jigs I will pick from after it is reflexed.
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Boy...........I'm watching this one, can't wait for more!
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Tips are bottomed out, now I will just clean up the back while it sits and dries out a bit. Hopefully most of the 7" deflex will stay.
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Dang, that's crazy.
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After taking off the bark and examining the back and the grain etc. I decided I don't have 135# in this stave. Round 1 I loose. I will change my approach and try again. This bow should make a very cool looking 80# recurve. I will try and finish it and post a pic.
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Steve
Do you have something else you can try it with?
I'm starting to wrap up the majority of the big jobs I needed to do around the house, still have a porch to build though, so I may be able to work on such a bow in a a month or so. I may do a backed bow to start though and then maybe do a selfie.
P.S. I really liked your system for checking the draw weight, I may have to make myself one like that
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Mark, to be very honest I would much rather see you do a recurve than me. I might do a slightly bendy handle version just to see how it acts. I would never trust my splice in a bow that heavy.
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I don't blame you Steve. I have arthritis in both my shoulders so I don't like making heavy bows anymore but when it's as interesting as this....
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Out of the press
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Wow, that lost a lot of what you put in Steve. Did it sit long enough?
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It would have held more but I pulled it out after about 3 days. Happy where it is now actually . Putting some recurves in it today.
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Steve
I don't know how Pecan takes to dry heat bending but I have found that I can put some deflex in a handle by clamping a stave in a vise, the vise has to be strong, so the jaws clamp on the back and belly, belly facing out. Then I apply pressure on the outer tip and heat the handle, belly side. You can feel the wood give as you heat it. naturally you would have to protect the back where the vise is clamping the limb.
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Mark, I plan to use dry heat from here on out, I put some recurves in it today and the tips are about 2" behind the back. I may just leave it there and hopefully settle for tips even with the back. I really don't care for the way this wood works too much, to stringy for my taste. It will take at least a month to dry so i will just shape the limbs here and there till it dries out.