Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Rich Saffold on January 02, 2008, 11:58:33 pm
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Figure its time to put up a bow or two. The top bow is 68" ntn.r/d longbow of ipe, yellow boo core and black bamboo. Trapezoid limbs
with the bamboo tapered in from the ipe belly which is 15/16ths outside the fades. 65#'s@29", 16oz mass, 1/2" of net reflex after a hundred shots.
Will post a couple more pics after I finish the grip, and decide how shiny to finish it..It's going to the "Great White North" :) Ok Alberta
The second bow is Degame/local tonkin bamboo 39# bow made from pre-ban Cuban stock which came from Stemmler Archery, and I was fortunate to get a piece to make this bow for an 80 year old friend
and competition target archer, who used to have a Stemmler bow as a youth. The wood which I was very fortunate to get was from one of our local talented bowmakers who
prefers to remain anonymous since his box might fill up with inquiries..Very nice wood, worth bribery to obtain..
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows01.02.08/bow%20001.jpg)
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows01.02.08/bow%20006.jpg)
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows01.02.08/bow%20004.jpg)
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows12.17/bows12.17%20001.jpg)
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows12.17/bows12.17%20006.jpg)
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows12.17/bows12.17%20013.jpg)
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Very nice Rich. I think I can see what you're talking about with the development of your tiller. The limbs look very straight almost everywhere! Beautiful bows.
J. D.
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Very nice bows Rich. I'm building a bamboo backed lemonwood bow also and have been quite impressed with this combo.
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Now that is an efficient tiller. Beauty.
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Very graceful bows. Excellent work
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The grip on the degame bow is a bit blocky in appearance, but it's what the owner wanted and I thought it was rather comfortable. I wanted to have as much of a working limb on this bow to make the draw as smooth as possible at 28". The owner recently took 3d in a New York City Fita shoot with another one of my bows so at 80 he is still going strong. Every bowyer gets stoked when someone does good with their bows ;D
Thanks for the kind words guys. Part of why I posted was the tiller of these bows as we were discussing on the warbow forum. Also the limb shape of the Ipe bow which I will post a photo of this as well when I get a chance. I tried to combine all aspects of speed (low mass, r/d, bending the backing lams for glue-up, then bending them more when gluing to the belly) into these limbs, but tiller for a smooth no stacking draw. I have made several similar bows with good results so it was time to show one.
Rich-
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Very nice Rich,good job. :)He should be happy with that. :)
Pappy
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Those are some very pretty bows Rich.
Alan
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I would love to see more pics and hear more how you made them. I think your tiller is excellent. I Think this style shoots much better than if you made it bend more circular in the outer limbs.
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Thanks for posting these, interesting tiller, most of the bend in the near handle area. Would this tiller work
with woods that aren't as strong in compression? I've never used or seen either ipe or lemonwood but I'm
assuming they have good compression qualities.
I love the idea of being 80 and still shooting, pretty awesome.
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Richard,
Thanks for posting those. Very elegant.
I would love to see more pics and hear more how you made them. I think your tiller is excellent. I Think this style shoots much better than if you made it bend more circular in the outer limbs.
Looking at the at rest picture and the full draw I can imagine that the bow limbs aren't actually working as much near the handle as it appears. The parts of the limb at mid and outer that appear straight are actually bending and being highly stressed. The near handle looks bent and stressed but may not actually be bending as much as it appears as they were deflexed to start with.
Mark
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I could be wrong Dana but I think while it looks like the bend is only by the handle its deceiving because there is a lot of power put in the glue joint on the outer limbs during glue up if they move a little its really a lot. If it were tillered to full circle the outer limbs would be doing too much. Thats my understanding I am interested to hear what Rich says about it. I dont know how it would work with woods that are not good in compression. I would say not good but I will let someone else try it. If I make a laminated or backed bow I use belly wood that is strong in compression but I am far far far from an expert opinion on this.
Jesse
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Mark you beat me to it. :D You posted while I was writing looks like we agree. :D
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Thanks, Ive only tried one laminated bow, it died an ugly death ;)
I think I get what your saying though, it will be interesting to
see what Richard has to say.
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Nice bows, Rich. How does the degame compare to the ipe for belly wood?
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It is a bit of an illusion looking like the limbs outside the grip were bending more, and that the bow should have bad hand shock with this shape of limb. What is really happening is the tips/outer limbs really have to move the farthest like on any bow, but its amplified here with this limb shape. basically putting more energy from a longer bow limb by shortening it up a touch by first deflexing just outside the grip, and reflexing the tips..
If you sight down the limb when its being drawn it moves just like a straight bow limb, from the tips in. It just has more stored energy in this profile. It's similar to some of the modern glass hybrids, but the concept is old. Classic examples are the ancient Egyptian bows were crafted in this same manner. Jaroslav I think posted a few european models as well..
The Degame bow is only 66", and with a 5" grip had limbs of a 61" bow so I amplified the curve closer to the tips which seems to work better on the shorter bows and on the longer bows I like the curve in the middle of the limbs..
Rich
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Hillbilly, Degame is a bit lighter in density, but how it works is like the straightest ipe, and you can use it in pretty much any cut with similar results. I'm beginning to think the same thing about ipe except there's a 100 different subspecies so there's more variety. Lemonwood is about as consistent a wood as you can get which makes it wonderful for these bows.
but it's also very expensive, and if my friend didn't have this for me..I wasn't making this bow out of Degame.
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Rich, I love the tiller on these bows. I reckon I got a piece of wood from that feller too and it was worth the begging. ;D He is a pretty good egg. Justin
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Thanks Justin, I appreciate it. I remember when I first made bows with profiles like this..Initially it was hard visually to accept them, even though the performance and sweetness of shot was obvious..
I can just Imagine what the comments would have been if I had posted this on the leatherwall 12 years ago.. :o ;)
I'm stoked I have one slender piece of this lemonwood left. The bow from it will have to stay in the family
Rich
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Rich,your bows are always clean and graceful looking. I've got an old Stemmler,lemon wood bow that I'm going to reback and rebuild. And I'm starting the project I PM you about. Nice bows and what are you feeding that bow. ;)
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Really neat bows. Both bookmarked under laminante bows for January BOM.
Your degame/bamboo bow should be regarded as an R?D bow, right?
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Oldbow, I appreciate that! and yes, R/D is correct.
Thanks Eddie, I don't feed em much, thats for sure..Stemmler must be looking down with approval with all his old bows getting this attention. I think its great. Many 20? years ago, My friend/fellow bowyer had a Stemmler longbow that we backed with some bamboo, and it shot really fast . Was a big eye opener/epiphany sort of thing..
Rich
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Those are some beautiful bows Rich! My wife's grandpa used to make Lemonwood bows back in the 40's for the boyscouts. It is really cool to hear his stories about this awesome wood, he said he backed them with a fibre backing. He has asked me why I don't try Lemonwood but I have no idea if it is still available. Sure would love to make a Lemonwood bow for him before he is gone.
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Jbell, It would be great if someone could "defect" to Cuba, and smuggle out some wood. Gilmore Woods has some, but it was close to 200.00 for a board. :o Perhaps if I had the demand, and saw the wood in person would I consider it. I'd be careful shopping for this wood with the growing demand for these old bows. I'd like to find some old lemonwood bows and refurbish them. I did one last year, and it was rewarding.
Fortisan was the backing on the bow I re-worked. Glad you like the bows. I have a few more pics. which I will get the kid (webmaster :D) to pull from my website of the lemonwood one and post . I shipped it off a few weeks ago.
Rich
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Rich, I thought I read this somewhere before but now I cant find it. How did you bend the Ipe. I have tried and I just cant seem to get exotic tropicals to take a bend. Justin
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We can only hope Fidel kicks the bucket soon and his brother takes a more conciliatory track with the US.
Great bows, I like the flat limb full-draw. That gives you more nearly even stress over the whole limb. You can tiller a R/D bow to bend in a more nearly circular fashion, but of course you are putting more stress on the outer limbs at that point.
Hope your 80-yr-old friend shoots taht bow for many years to come. I have a 90-yr-old uncle that still plays the harmonica, and mows his own grass. I don't think he could pull a 40lb bow though.
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Thanks Lennie! Another interesting bit of data the folks at PA might be interested in. Probably 90% of the inquiries on my little classified ad in the Magazine are 75 or older..There's little groups of them all over this country retired and making bows, and buying a little bit of wood when the monthly check comes in. These folks don't use computers, and don't seem to have any desire..It's inspiring, and I end up hearing some wild stories in the regional accent.
They must have cloned Fidel, he has been living way to long. My 7th grade Spanish teacher escaped Cuba in a 13' boat..She had some incredible stories.. I'm not for invading countries, but Cuba would be an exception..Cheap cigars, wild women, great booze, unlimited Degame ;D
Rich-
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...... Never mind the booze, cigars an women GET TA the Degame !!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D.......bob(Lemonwood and Cypress freak)
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A couple more pics.
(http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/bows12.17/bows12.17%20002.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Sourswithhawk/Bows/camerapictures468.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Sourswithhawk/Bows/camerapictures475.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Sourswithhawk/Bows/camerapictures463.jpg)
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We need some of the refugees to start building their rafts out of lemonwood instead of 57 chevy's. I mean't to type," what are you feeding that boy", not bow. When I start trying to bend that Ipe, I'm going to take pictures of the process in case it works.
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Justin,. I have never really had any luck and I boiled,steamed and heated it beyond reason years ago. So I have been bending it with bamboo instead ;D I tried other tropicals as well, and had the same results...
Now I'm pulling for Eddie to come up with the solution of the millenium...
Rich
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Justin,. I have never really had any luck and I boiled,steamed and heated it beyond reason years ago. So I have been bending it with bamboo instead ;D I tried other tropicals as well, and had the same results...
Now I'm pulling for Eddie to come up with the solution of the millenium...
Rich
Sounds like my experience. I have litterally burned wood with the heat gun trying to bend it with no luck. I boiled one piece of purpleheart for probably six hours and I managed to get about 1/4" of reflex. Maybe if I boiled it in buffalo pee it would work. ;D Justin