Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: bambam on July 24, 2014, 07:03:42 pm
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OK--this won't sound very primitive but I'm working up to it and have some nice serviceberry staves drying in the basement. First bow making try was a red oak board bow with rawhide backing that is a good shooter but came out at 37 lb. instead of 47 lb. because of rookie mistakes. Current project is a hard maple board bow in the H Hill style as I found a maple board with perfect grain. It is 70 in. ntn and floor tillered at about 60 lb. I am waiting on a shipment of .030 fiberglass for backing. The question is after it is final tillered with the glass backing at about 48 lb. how much will adding the .030 glass to the belly increase the draw??? Not too concerned about getting the belly flat enough as am good with hand tools.
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your asking the wrong crowd lol
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Rule #3
Topics and posts should be related to primitive archery in some way. If you want to discuss other topics in life there are plenty of other places on the internet you can go. This place is about primitive archery. Discussions on the use of post-industrial materials (yes that means FG) is discouraged here.
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By default, the folks here at Primitive (get it...? Primitive?) Archer will respond to you that you don't need glass. It you have a perfectly grained piece of maple, then why would you add glass to it?
If you insist on getting a proper answer, you should go to Trad Gang forums. Lots of glass guys there.
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Glassing a bow is really not good practice for later making a selfbow.
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At most I would go for fiberglass cloth backing after heat treating the belly. If you are allowed to used modern glues, you should be allowed to use modern fabrics. But the fiberglass you are talking about belongs to the laminated bow.
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Pearl Drums--Thanks for setting a rookie straight on what is OK here and what is not. The current project is going to be glass but as mentioned I am for certain going primitive when my staves dry. Totally disagree with PatM. All bow making skills are transferable just like my wood carving skills transfer to bowmaking.
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No, that's really not true. If it was all the laminated masters would be able to quickly take up selfbows as they wished. Few actually do so.
Nor do woodcarving skills necessarily translate to bowmaking. If they did you certainly wouldn't be using a laminated bow as a stepping stone to bridge the gap between wood carving and a selfbow.
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Some glass bowyers, a few years ago, tried making wood bows with glass backs and some with back and belly. It didn't take them long to realize it wasn't gonna work so they dropped the idea.
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If you insist on putting glass on a perfectly grained maple board then you will have to tiller it down below what you want your finished weight to be and then add glass on back and belly. If you try adding glass on the back only and then tillering the glass will crush the belly and create a lot of set. Most wood is already stronger in tension than compression so theres really no need to add a glass backing. Im no glass expert thats just been my little bit of experience with it.
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If you insist on putting glass on a perfectly grained maple board then you will have to tiller it down below what you want your finished weight to be and then add glass on back and belly. If you try adding glass on the back only and then tillering the glass will crush the belly and create a lot of set. Most wood is already stronger in tension than compression so theres really no need to add a glass backing. Im no glass expert thats just been my little bit of experience with it.
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If you are going to make a glass bow - make a glass bow from the start.
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Don't have a clue, :o but it don't need to be in the real bow section. ;) ;D ;D
Pappy
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I think adding glass to perfectly grained Maple is a travesty. Maple makes a fine self bow, bubby has a great build along and he uses a maple board in it.
Grady
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The first bow had rawhide which worked just fine but looked messy so figured I'd try glass but will save that for another project. Linen sounds like it would look messy too. Off to a fabric store with wife in morning. Maybe I can find some heavy black silk.
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Why not just leave it unbacked? Does it have some issue or are you trying to achieve something outside the limits of the wood etc? Just wondering why you're so set on backing it with something.
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I remember watching a video of who I'm quite sure was Fred Bear. He was talking about the evolution of the bows his company made, and he talked briefly about applying fiberglass to both the belly and the back. He had found that adding it to the back was productive, but that adding it to the belly was not. You can't go wrong as a rookie glass bowyer following the advice of Fred Bear. I wouldn't bother with the belly if I were you.
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When I was 13-14 I had a production one piece wood longbow that broke. Some how one made from a board sounds flimsy without backing. Spent time finding the perfect board and forming it up, don't want it to break. Will go with cloth and Titebond III backing then smooth it with epoxy. Will save the glass to rebuild a red oak bow designed for glass. My split stave should be ready for going primitive in January. Going to learn this bow building in increments.
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I just got done with a 54# Red Oak board bow. It can be done, and I wasn't backing mine, Even if it broke, it wasn't getting backed.
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Why are your rawhide backing looking messy? No backing should look messy if applied properly.
No reason to mix TB with Epoxy. Either or will get the job done if you want a smooth backing.
You may want to revisit the bow board threads on here to see just how flimsy a board actually is.
A wood backed bow is also just two boards glued together.
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Some how one made from a board sounds flimsy without backing.
I dunno man, unbacked bows fed humanity for thousands of years pretty efficiently, and we're all still OK :P Well, most of us (the ones around here are weird :D)
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Just search my posts, must be 90% board bows up to 70#, selfies and backed
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just made a 65# unbacked oasge bow...nothon flomsy about it...take a little more time dont rush it and build you a selfbow...back it with hickory ifya like
..youll get plenty of help if ya just ask...and for Godsakes....leave the FG alone around here!!! pullleeeeze!!! lmbo
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I've been hunting with one since 2003, still ain't flimsy at 60#
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Starting to think you guys are right. The red oak was not remotely as powerful as this maple thing. Ready to start tillering as soon as the tips are on. Right now it is pulling 60-65 lb. Where I went wrong with the first one was final tillering before shooting it.
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Why spend the time and effort putting tips on before you tiller the bow? If you leave the tips slightly wide you can cut in temporary string nocks to complete the tillering. You don't need finished tips to tiller a bow and in my mind it is a waste of time until you are sure the bow will survive.
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I have no doubt the bow will survive. The floor tiller is looking great like the first bow did. Really all I expect to do is reduce the weight and shoot it some before final tillering. The tips were no problem as I already had some home made micarta and just had to glue them on. When this works out after 1000 shots I intend to redo it without backing and make it all pretty with antler tips and such. Just have to get over the nervousness about shooting something not laminated. Lam wood is much stronger than one piece.
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I have no doubt the bow will survive. The floor tiller is looking great like the first bow did. Really all I expect to do is reduce the weight and shoot it some before final tillering. The tips were no problem as I already had some home made micarta and just had to glue them on. When this works out after 1000 shots I intend to redo it without backing and make it all pretty with antler tips and such. Just have to get over the nervousness about shooting something not laminated. Lam wood is much stronger than one piece.
Damn, you were easy to convince, now you have no doubt it will survive ??? And you are still going to back it after it survives a thousand shots? :o ::) That's a crap load of shooting, it ought to be shot in :D.
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Put Irish linen backing on and shot it in. Draws super smooth and shoots dead bang. Just have to even out the tiller a little and make it pretty. Unfortunately it's going to be a 40 lb bow.
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im getting confused with this thread...no harm meant...just...ya know....hmmm.??
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I don't even know where to start than other to say I'm reading a lot of wrong preconceived notions here by the o.p. :-X
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I guess some people doubt that a complete rookie to bow building and having unconventional ideas can actually have the first 2 bows be shooters. Someone at the club tried to buy the maple bow from me when he heard I wasn't happy about the 40 lbs. Building a board bow was easy compared to other stuff I've been doing lately. Go to www.deviantart.com then search---tradarcher (me). That should convince you I can use hand tools. I expect building a bow from a tree stave to be huge jump in difficulty however.
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If you have completed one bow then you aren't a complete rookie. Furthermore, no one ever said you couldn't build a bow.