Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: autologus on July 30, 2014, 02:19:11 pm

Title: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: autologus on July 30, 2014, 02:19:11 pm
I need some help, I recently bought a spoke shave but I am having some problems with adjustments I guess.  I have a hard time keeping it from chattering, if I make it any shallower it will hardly take anything off.  I have a feeling I am not doing a very good job of driving and need some tips to operate this piece of equipment properly, so any tips would be wonderful.

Grady
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Pat B on July 30, 2014, 02:24:06 pm
Grady, I traded my spoke shave. The only wood I could get it to work on was yew or ERC. Everything else it chattered on. It could be the adjustment or the blade sharpness but for me a draw knife, a rasp and a good sharp scraper. Sorry, not much encouragement.  ;D
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: chamookman on July 30, 2014, 02:24:37 pm
I hate to say this, but put it in a tool box and forget about it. I never found one to be of any use Bow making. A good selection of scrapers will outdo and surpass anything a Spoke Shave possibly could do. Bob
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: autologus on July 30, 2014, 02:29:46 pm
So far, this is the exact experiences I have been having.  I would not take anything for my farriers rasp or my Nicholson 50 and the card scrapers I have will peal off shavings you could read through but the spoke shave is a bugger.

Grady
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 30, 2014, 02:42:34 pm
I gave mine away. Im okay at setting up tools and have a good grip on using them, but I cant even start to make it work on a bow. On the edge of a board? No problem. But I don't do much board work of any type.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Del the cat on July 30, 2014, 05:01:33 pm
Spoke shaves are great ;D... well some of 'em.
Has it got a flat sole? I use a flat sole one and made the mistake of thinking a curved sole one would be a good addition... nope, it's hopeless.
So...  if it's a flat sole one check out the interweb for spokeshave adjustment tuning articles. I tend to use one when the draw knife is in danger of digging in and tearing, after the spokeshave it's rasps. Maybe it's not so handy on Osage, but I've used mine on Yew Ash hazel etc.
It's only a cheapo one, but I took trouble to clean it up as per advice on the web.
Blimey I even get kids using it at bow making demos, they love making curly shavings :)
Del
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: RBLusthaus on July 30, 2014, 05:10:22 pm
Ditto to what Del says.  I love my shaves.  I have three or four on the bench set for different depths.  Would be lost without them (slight exaggeration).  Flat sole only.  Never able to get the round ones to work properly.  When pulling, you must always keep the pressure in front of the blade.  2 points of contact with the work - blade and front of sole.   I like to enlarge the blade opening in the 151s but not mandatory for the light shavings of bow work.  I use mine even to clean up after rasping. 

In all, a very good tool - once u get the hang of it.  Don't give up on it is my advice. 
Russ
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: autologus on July 30, 2014, 05:16:58 pm
OK that may be the problem because it is a convex sole.  I have a 4" belt sander that I bet could make it a flat sole spoke shave.  ;)  If I screw it up, oh well, it isn't working very well anyway.  I can get it to make shavings on the edges but not in the middle so the flat sole thing makes since.  I will modify it and let you all know how it goes.

Grady
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Del the cat on July 30, 2014, 06:02:18 pm
BTW, the young kids think it's funny when I explain what chattering is...
"Just like when you get told off for chatting at school...
Making too much noise and not working properly :laugh: "
Del
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: mullet on July 30, 2014, 06:16:55 pm
I hated the first one I had and gave it away. Then I picked up an antique, homemade one that is flat and it will really curl some osage. And really likes yew and ERC.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Del the cat on July 30, 2014, 06:32:06 pm
My brother picked up one of those old wooden ones (Beech I think) where the blade has two prongs which come up through the wood and you adjust the cut by tapping on the blade or tips of the prongs. It even had the makers name on it proudly proclaiming "Made in Sheffield" :) . He gave it to me and I cleaned it up and sharpened the blade, it cuts like a dream. I save it for demos where I'm trying to look medieval (e.g Haven't shaved for 2 weeks ;) ) Some of those old tools cut waaay better than the new.
Del
PS. Just found a couple of pics of it assembled & dismantled on the foot of this post on my blog:-
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/belly-patch-bow-full-draw.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/belly-patch-bow-full-draw.html)
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: RBLusthaus on July 30, 2014, 06:59:56 pm
I also suggest holding the shave at an angle so that the cut is more of a slicing motion.  Kinda like skewing a plane, if ya know what I mean. 
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: JW_Halverson on July 30, 2014, 08:55:52 pm
I love spokeshaves and I make sure that the blade is shaving sharp.  It's a cutting tool, it should cut, not beat the material up with blunt force trauma.

Many people take the blade out to sharpen or what have you, then replace it UPSIDE DOWN! The bevel should be down, giving you a shallower cutting angle.

The Stanley's are fine enough, but the tool bed where it mates to the removable blade is often nowhere near flat enough.  I have used fiberglass bedding material to help flatten the tool bed.  As for the sole of the tool, it should be absolutely dead flat and the leading edge just slightly relieved or rounded a bit. 

When I bought my Veritas from Lee Valley Tools I knew I had the right tool for the job finally.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 30, 2014, 09:07:13 pm
It helps to sit your thumbs on the blade
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: mullet on July 30, 2014, 09:28:56 pm
Del, mine looks almost identical to yours. I've got to go and check it and see.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Badger on July 30, 2014, 09:35:59 pm
  I love the spokeshave but not on every wood. Most white woods I prefer the spokeshave to the draw knife. A sokeshave has a littel bit of a learning curve, maybe a couple of hours to really get a feel for it. No way a scraper can keep up with a spoke shave. They do work best on clean staves or boards. Once a chatter starts you need to stop and use the rasp to flatten it back out or just go to one side and gradually come back into the bad area. You need to turn and rotate the spokeshave while you use it and this just happens automaticaly as you grow comfortable with it. I would say make the time investment to get comfortable with it, watch some online vidios. It is a great tool. As you gain epxperience with it you cn use it one handed and hold the stave with your other hand, this is a huge plus when working in the field.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Hamish on July 30, 2014, 10:10:46 pm
There are spokeshaves and then there are spokeshaves. Its pretty much all been said, but quality of the tool a veritas or lie Nielsen are made with thicker blades and finer tolerances(cost a lot more than a vintage or Stanley etc). Some of the older mass produced spokeshaves are really only good for straight grained pine.
 You need to know how to sharpen the blade.
Upside down blade trick sounds good, as it increases the angle of blade making it less likely cause to tear out. I haven't tried it with a spokeshave but have used it many times successfully with handplanes.
That being said spokeshaves work best if the wood is already straight grained, they aren't much use on knotty, character wood.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Josh Shuck on July 30, 2014, 11:11:21 pm
They do OK on rounded belly bows because they were made to make spokes... :) I find them impossible in wavy grain and wide flat limbs.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: jasonoflivingston on July 30, 2014, 11:16:49 pm
I am a big fan of spokeshaves.  That being said, a poorly set up spokeshave is a nightmare.  My original, and recently damaged spokeshave was a vintage flat/concave combo shave.  It took a lot of work to get it set up using the info in the article below, but once it was, I could do very little wrong with it. 

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/tipstechniques/tuning-and-using-spokeshave

I have since replaced it with a Veritas flat spokeshave and was initially getting a great deal of chatter with it.  Again, fine tuning and setup made a world of difference.  Another thing to pay attention to besides squirrely grain and knots is grain direction.  Spokeshaves don't generally like going against the grain.  As a side note, the convex shaves can be quite difficult to get a feel for because they rely more heavily on hand control than the flat soled shaves.  That means a lot more focus is required, but they have their place. 
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: autologus on July 30, 2014, 11:28:51 pm
That was a great article on the spokeshave Jason I learned a lot.  Now I have some tuning to do.

Grady
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Adam on July 30, 2014, 11:59:51 pm
I completely agree with JW's suggestion of keeping the blade bevel down.  The main problem that I've had with mine is not getting the blade depth set correctly.  Here's what I've done that helps me.  I put a few sheets of paper or a card scraper on a flat surface (a bandsaw table works great).  I put the rear heel of the spokeshave on the scraper with the blade adjustment screw loosened.  Then I hold the spokeshave handles as close to level as I can and slowly lower the blade until it just touches the table and tighten the screw.  If it is digging into the wood too much, I'll readjust by removing a few sheets of paper to shallow the blade's cut.  If it's not taking enough off, I'll add a few sheets.  I hope that makes sense.  One minor warning though, spokeshaves can remove a lot of wood fairly quickly.  I just recently made a really dandy hinge in a bow I was working on.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Adam on July 31, 2014, 12:00:51 am
It didn't show up well in the above photo, but that's a scraper under the spokeshave.  Too many things the same color!
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Prarie Bowyer on July 31, 2014, 02:10:32 am
I have two and I love them.  Only use the rasp for curly grain.

I have one like dells that I made from the rudder bow shave blade.  Put it in a walnut body.  Front edge is worn but it cuts great!

Then I have the black one from japan woodworker.   Stainless sole. Again works great.  Learn to tune and sharpen it.  Also skew it when you cut.  Oh, if the grain is curly you need a rasp.
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Mark Anderson on July 31, 2014, 08:06:54 am
The key to keep it from chattering is to hold it and pull it at an angle. Alternate right to left to keep it even.
Mark
Title: Re: Spoke Shave tips needed
Post by: Jodocus on July 31, 2014, 09:06:05 am
I have and use and like spokeshaves  ;D

but it wont work on every wood. It works phantastically on elderberry, maple, yew, pear. It wont work at all on sloe, apple, cherry. And it's only really good on surfaces that are at least slightly convex. Like a spoke.

when I use them, I use tem instead of the rasp. They're not quite as good for rounding, bit they leave no marks.