Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blob on August 14, 2014, 11:03:51 pm
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Hey guys, I need some opinions please.
I glued up an Ipe board with a Hickory backing a couple days ago. I'm pretty sure the handle and tip overlays are some species of Rosewood.
Current dimensions are: 66" ttt 1 1/4" wide. Backing is 1/8" thick. Ipe is 3/4" thick. I am shooting for 50-55# @26".
What I'm wondering is how I should do my width taper. A straight taper starting close to the handle or the last 1/3 of the limb (which is how it is currently cut)?
Here are a few photos:
Overall
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/14921818605_93cd17c267_z.jpg)
Close up of the nice grain on the overlay:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3860/14735164040_c230aeda60.jpg)
Handle - 8" long
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5576/14735159379_2e33ba0269_z.jpg)
Suggestions please!
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You could do either a straight taper or go out a few inches before tapering.
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Id suggest tapering right off the fades. Ipe is soooo stiff you can end up thin. Looks good so far, nice stats to.
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Thanks guys. I was thinking that might be the better option.
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Check out my "Howard" bow from last month. Its a heavier draw weight and pulls a few inches farther, yet its only 1" wide. Don't be scared to narrow it as well. Keep plenty of ipe on the belly.
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I have another piece of IPE that I ripped from the original board that is 1" wide that will probably be my next project. That will probably be Hickory backed as well.
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Ok, so I'm lazy...lol I want to try to cut down the amount of scraping that I have to do on the belly. What would be a good thickness taper to use as a starting point that I can rough out on the band saw?
Suggestions please!
Oh, and here is a photo of the new width taper
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5561/14937446651_ee2f1c705e_z.jpg)
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No cheating, unless you want a junker. If I did any tapering at all, it wouldnt be over an 1/8". Just start floor tillering until you get it perfect.
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So I didn't cheat. I started the taper at 5/8" at the fades and went to 1/2" at the tips. It still needs a lot of scraping!
This is how it sits now
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14766025929_4b5783b03e_z.jpg)
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Are my tips to wide?
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/14946244106_a0ffdab7e4_k.jpg)
I hope the photo isn't too large, I can't actually view the photos that I post while I'm at work
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Your tips can go a little narrow but I wouldn't worry about that until final shaping and finishing.
If you pre-tiller(pre-taper) the belly before hand you can put the combo into Perry Reflex for the glue-up and you'll get a nice, evenly bending reflex when it comes off of the clamps.
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Thanks Pat
I'll be doing that with the next one that I do for sure.
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It's hard to tell from the picture, but did you taper your width right out of the fades, or did you go parallel for a portion, then taper to the tips?
If you began your width taper right at the fades (pyramid style), then I would caution you against tapering the thickness. I have done that before on strict pyramid bows, and when the thickness is also tapered, the near handle wood doesn't bend enough while the tips bend too much and it winds up overstressing the middle of the limb and causes a bad hinge that's hard to fix...
Oddly enough, when I did this before, I tapered the limb from 5/8" to 7/16" and I put a tape measure on the spot where it hinged, and it was exactly 1/2" thick. I felt like the wood was trying to tell me something, so I started making all of them a consistent 1/2" thick from fade to tip. Over the course of tillering, you're going to wind up thinning the tips a little bit for a good circular tiller, but to try to pre-taper the thickness with a bandsaw from 5/8" to 1/2" is a bit too much - at least in my experience.
At any rate, never stop making sawdust. The only way to really learn is to "do." I'm the type of guy who has to build a bow purposefully "wrong" so that I can visually see why things happen the way that they do - I've broken MANY bows this way... ::) It also teaches me what conventions never to break, what conventions can be broken, and what conventions can be bent. But that's the fun of this hobby - it's a process of ongoing improvement, and always a learning experience! :laugh:
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It's hard to tell from the picture, but did you taper your width right out of the fades, or did you go parallel for a portion, then taper to the tips?
If you began your width taper right at the fades (pyramid style), then I would caution you against tapering the thickness. I have done that before on strict pyramid bows, and when the thickness is also tapered, the near handle wood doesn't bend enough while the tips bend too much and it winds up overstressing the middle of the limb and causes a bad hinge that's hard to fix...
Oddly enough, when I did this before, I tapered the limb from 5/8" to 7/16" and I put a tape measure on the spot where it hinged, and it was exactly 1/2" thick. I felt like the wood was trying to tell me something, so I started making all of them a consistent 1/2" thick from fade to tip. Over the course of tillering, you're going to wind up thinning the tips a little bit for a good circular tiller, but to try to pre-taper the thickness with a bandsaw from 5/8" to 1/2" is a bit too much - at least in my experience.
At any rate, never stop making sawdust. The only way to really learn is to "do." I'm the type of guy who has to build a bow purposefully "wrong" so that I can visually see why things happen the way that they do - I've broken MANY bows this way... ::) It also teaches me what conventions never to break, what conventions can be broken, and what conventions can be bent. But that's the fun of this hobby - it's a process of ongoing improvement, and always a learning experience! :laugh:
Excellent...now I'm confused.
I started the width taper 1" out of the fades. Maybe I'm missing something, but are you suggesting that I should keep the thickness even from fade to tip and rely on the width taper to provide the tillering? If so what thickness should I shoot for? It is currently at 15/32 at the thinnest point. It seems to me that would still be too much material to achieve the draw weight that I am shooting for.
This is how it looks on the tree right now
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3858/14971729221_9d26047208_c.jpg)
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Looks like it is time for low brace to me.
Grady
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Just tiller it like you would tiller any other bow. Get the limbs bending a bit more before you try a low brace. The right limb has a slight hinge about 10" out from the fade so be careful there. If you find the limbs are getting too thin you can reduce the width to reduce weight with little tiller change if any.
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I think that the hinge is an illusion of the background but I may be wrong. Here is a view with the limbs reversed.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3910/14788295927_377ea485f8_c.jpg)
Oh the hazards of posting pictures at work...lol Should be better now.
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Currently 55@20" gettin closer!
Disclaimer - the cardboard is crooked
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3889/14827675628_c721a0baee_c.jpg)
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That looks pretty doggone good, I think you may need just a tad bit more bend in the inner third of the right limb
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I have ran into a couple snags...the handle keeps popping off. It has happened twice now. The first time it was glued with TBIII, and the second was with Gorilla 5min Epoxy (it was the only epoxy that I had on hand). My question is...Should I try one more time with a better epoxy, or should I attempt to make it a bendy handle, or try a different wood for a handle? I suspect that my handle section is too short which is causing the problem. Both times I thoroughly degreased both the ipe and the rosewood.
Here is a photo of what I am working with.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5593/15102751661_bb7f083a69_c.jpg)
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Hm, that's a pity. Apparantly you didn't leave enough thickness in the ipé itself to make it a stiff handle without the rosewood. Although the ipé does have additional thickness in the handle compared to the limbs, it's not enough. The clean ipé and rosewood also indicate a bad glue application or improper surface preparation. Both woods are notiously difficult to glue, so it makes sense.
I'd say you need to rough up the ipé surface with 60 grit sandpaper. Then wipe down with acetone to degrease. Instead of using one block of rosewood for the handle, glue down several thin laminations of about 1/8" thick. Also rough up the rosewood and degrease it as well. Then continue with the titebond 3 for the glue up. That is plenty strong enough.
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So IF I decided to keep this as a bendy handle, should I thin the current handle area to match the limbs or should I keep it as is.
Also, would I still be able to shape the handle the way that I was planning? Mild bulbous style similar to the osage one in this post: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31390.msg415541.html#msg415541 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31390.msg415541.html#msg415541) Or would I need to leave it full width all the way through?
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U can build it up with cork, shape the cork and finish to your liking. It'll be the bulbua handle but still bend
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"I'd say you need to rough up the ipé surface with 60 grit sandpaper. Then wipe down with acetone to degrease. Instead of using one block of rosewood for the handle, glue down several thin laminations of about 1/8" thick. Also rough up the rosewood and degrease it as well. Then continue with the titebond 3 for the glue up. That is plenty strong enough."
+1
Gabe
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Thanks for all the reply's guys. I have decided that I'm going to cork it up for now. If that doesn't work for some reason I'll try again with the rosewood.
The tiller still needs just a bit of work on the upper limb in the photo. I did throw a couple test arrows when the pic was taken. It feels great, ZERO hand shock, and super quiet.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/15130111801_4ee26a3e49_c.jpg)
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It's all finished. 55# @ 26".
and I realized that I didn't get any pics of the laminated cork handle...lol
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/15173010602_c11c64182a_z.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5578/14986798078_9ce773f703_z.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5573/15161243382_d66c126f48_z.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3867/14974968460_379183d468_c.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3902/15161238182_975da5a1fb_c.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3925/14986702750_88ca42503d_z.jpg)
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Very nice looking bow.
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Looking good Blob. :)
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Good looking bow.
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That one looks like a shooter.
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Nice work!
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Nice work man!
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That sure is pretty. Nice work!
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I've not seen cork shaped to replicate a glued-on wood handle. Good thinkin', since that apperently the type shape you were after.
Bow is looking good.
Have your thread bookmarked for reference when start my IPE.
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Nicely done dude. Looks good!
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Thanks for all the compliments guys.
A note about the cork: TBIII may not be the best option for this application, or I didn't use enough glue, or I didn't wait long enough for it to cure. I had trouble keeping the cork together while shaping. I had to use super glue to keep some spots together while I was trimming. After all the shaping I put a generous skim coat of harbor freight wood glue over the whole handle area to seal it. Other than that it seemed to work fine and feels great in the hand.
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Nice job,looks like it finished up nicely. :)
Pappy