Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: ajbruggink on October 17, 2014, 07:32:20 pm
-
Heh guys, I have never posted a topic in this discussion area before but I'm interested in archery in Medieval European archery and that includes Warbows and I spend time here and there trying to find information on European archery before the Hundred Years' War because I feel too little is known about it. Anyway, I've had a question that has been bouncing around in my head from time to time and I wanted to hear your opinions on it. I'm curious about the ratio between the number of whitewood warbows and the number of yew warbows was, I know we might not ever find that answer but I thought some of you might have some ideas. Yew in bow quality was probably never 'abundant', especially when we start fielding the amount of archers that England did in the Hundred Year's War and that yew was used for bows long before this time already, I was thinking perhaps there was like a 5:1 ratio, five whitewood warbows to a yew warbow, though this may have decreased or increased depending on one's perspective. If there was a serious shortage of yew, which internet sources implies there was just before gunpowder weapons came into use, the ratio could have went up to 10:1. However, if the draw weights of the bows increased to keep up with improvements in armor, they might have used more yew to make better bows. What do you guys think? As far as my own experience as a bowyer while pondering this question, the first bow I ever made was an English Longbow-style bow from red oak,72" (2 m) ttt, 40 lb at 29" draw, and after months of shooting, it retains 2.5" (6.35 cm) of set. I believe, from this experience, that an ELB can be made from whitewoods and I'm going to make more ELB's from whitewoods (hopefully with less set) but my research has indicated yew is a better option for that design and I would assume that would become more clear if you continue to increase the draw weight and demand of the bow. Your responses are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Aaron
-
No idea about the ratio question, but white woods can certainly make heavy self warbows. There are many skilled bowyers who can make white wood self bows well into the 150# range.
I think ( I'm by no means experienced enough to make a statement of fact ) that with yew the bowyer can take more liberties and use lower quality wood to get heavy bows, while when using white woods you have to be more careful with wood selection.
-
Yeah I probably didn't word the question right, I'm just trying to figure out how many whitewood bows were made in comparison to the yew ones, maybe that's a better way to put it.
-
I seem to remember a reference in 'warbow or longbow" by Hardy/ Strickland that bowyers were required to make four meanewood bows to every yew bow!
-
Perhaps you could have a look through 'Arrow Storm' by Richard Wadge. In it he details lists of yew staves that were imported during the medieval period. A quick calculation of the number of yew staves x the statute for making white wood bow might give you a rough starting point.
Alistair
-
Yep, for sure there are references detailing the ratios. As to quality, I see no reason why a good wych elm bow should not perform as well as yew. I have made several and they perform well and are nice to work. One aspect that every bowyer who works whitewood in general knows, is that these timbers prefer to be very dry and the finished bow should be sealed well against moisture. This is an aspect that may have made these bow seem inferior to yew, given that modern finishes were unavailable way back then and moisture gain in whitewood bows would have reduced their performance. In contrast yew does not like to be too dry and is more resistant to damp conditions - something prevalent in the medieval/tudor period.
Dave
-
You can seal moisture out, though could you seal moisture in? Just a thought :)
-
There are references to the ratio in various sources.
Incidentally there are numerous woods in Europe that could also be used instead of the typical whitewoods. I sometimes wonder why these were never mentioned.
Hophornbeam grows in Europe and their version of our Blue Beech is a much larger tree.
You can seal moisture in with the same effectiveness that you can seal it out.
-
Simple.
We don't know!
Next!
Del
-
Yep, for sure there are references detailing the ratios. As to quality, I see no reason why a good wych elm bow should not perform as well as yew. I have made several and they perform well and are nice to work. One aspect that every bowyer who works whitewood in general knows, is that these timbers prefer to be very dry and the finished bow should be sealed well against moisture. This is an aspect that may have made these bow seem inferior to yew, given that modern finishes were unavailable way back then and moisture gain in whitewood bows would have reduced their performance. In contrast yew does not like to be too dry and is more resistant to damp conditions - something prevalent in the medieval/tudor period.
Dave
Never been able to find this Wych Elm anywhere. Round by me it is all hickory.
-
Wych Elm is not a North American species.
-
I believe that yew was once the dominant species is the alps. I can't find the cite where I read this now but I believe it was reffereing to the middle ages.
-
That seems unlikely given that Yew is said to tolerate full sunlight poorly.
-
There's still tonnes of it there, and it's stunning quality. A few supremely lucky people are allowed to go and get loads of the stuff. And upload photos onto social networking websites of their trucks LOADED with it. :-[
-
Yew tolerates full sun just fine, it just lets lots more branches and foliage everywhere the sun hits.
-
The story went that clear cutting all other trees on the West Coast and leaving the protected Yew meant that the trees could not cope with the sudden loss of shade.
I still don't see how an understory type tree can be a dominant species though.
-
From what I've read, the yew in the alps is more of a dominant tree when compared to our pacific yew. We did some hiking in the Swiss alps in 2012, and saw some magnificent yew trees. I read (I forget where) that there was once entire yew forests cleared for the war campaign. We have some English yews in a some local parks, and they are very tall, around 50-60' and only around 100-125 years old apparently. But I've also seem 2000+ old pacific yews that are half that height.
I've cut some yew trees that were on the edge of a clearing. One was very large with very large growth rings. It seemingly didn't mind being exposed from the understory.
Don't mean to jack this thread, but I love talking yew!
-
Some some yew can be crap for making bows, I mean the stuff with really large growth rings?
-
Ring count can be completely irrelevant. Plenty of good, heavy bows have been made with incredibly coarse yew, and some poor bows have been made from very high ring count stuff.
Sometimes you need to make them slightly wider to accommodate for very poor growth, but generally you can get good bows out of almost any yew. Might take a bit more set perhaps.
-
Well, you learn something new each day :)
It seems the accidents destroyed a lot of yew forests for yew bowwood when the need for battle did arise.
-
People weren't stupid 'back in the day'.....I highly doubt wether whole forests of yew were destroyed. They would have cut the useable sections of useable trees not just cut the lot. They didn't have chainsaws and the mass timber cutting and moving machines we have now!!