Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 11:27:09 am

Title: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 11:27:09 am
So I'm 0 and 4 for making an ipe bow. The ash backing failed on me during short string. I'm really at a loss for words. It was looking great. I'm ready to just give up
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: bubby on October 21, 2014, 11:32:46 am
Lets see some pics of the break, maybe we can figure out what caused the break
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 11:45:15 am
It split along the grain in the backing, apparently it wasn't rounded over enough. It's just frustrating. I have one more piece of ipe long tonight then I have some I can splice. But I have no motivation for failure
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: bubby on October 21, 2014, 11:51:23 am
Read my signature at the bottom of the post it happens to us all, if someone says they never break a bow then they are playing super safe a.d probably way overbuilding
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 21, 2014, 11:51:44 am
Bruiser you'd be amazed what one day in an experienced bowyers shop would do for you. Just one day. You can learn more in a day than you can reading 5 books and breaking 10 bows.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 11:58:17 am
Thanks bubby, it's just a little frustrating.

That's why I'm trying to get to the classic pearly, I ain't got n e one that close.

I don't mean I'm gonna quit making bows, just feel like the ipe is laughing at me. Well see what happens. I got a nought wood for one more glue up. In gonna use boo this time. So hopefully I can pull one outta my a$$. Well see.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: DC on October 21, 2014, 01:42:54 pm
Do you think the Ipe overpowered the Ash? Are there successful Ash backed Ipe out there?
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 01:49:33 pm
Ash does well with ipe. It split the grain on the ash where I narrowed for the fades. I should have rounded them better. My mistake. I'm just butt hurt I guess. On to the next?
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: bubby on October 21, 2014, 02:03:32 pm
What is your layout, I go 1 1/4" wide about 2/3 of the limb and narrow to tips with epe
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: DarkSoul on October 21, 2014, 02:24:59 pm
Ash can work for ipé, but I think there are better alternatives. Bamboo comes to mind, obviously, but it requires more prep work and is more difficult to find. Hickory is great as well, and even maple would be preferred over ash.
If the grain split from the handle fade, there is obviously a design flaw. Probably every other backing would have failed in this case. Re-consider the width lay-out and fade placement. Don't blame the wood, but start over with an improved design. Don't do a glue-up straight away, since you're frustrated already. You'd be likely to make stupid mistakes again due to frustration.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 02:25:52 pm
It was gonna be a bendy handle. 1 1/8" wide then taper to 3/8" tips. I was trying to be simple. So I went with a pyramid design. I was on the short string when it let go.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 02:30:13 pm
62" long
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: DarkSoul on October 21, 2014, 02:32:56 pm
A 62" pyramid is anything but simple! A pyramid bow implies a narrowed handle. Which, in turn, implies a rigid handle with fades. This involves more labor than a simple straight stick. It is also very short, which puts way more stress on the wood.
A 74" ELB is as simplest as can be. You can go all the way to floor tillering with nothing but a block plane. No stiff handle, no fades, no transitions.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 02:41:58 pm
Also no shooting out of a stand. I'm not a fan of super long bows. I just want a bendy handle with flipped tips, is that too much to ask?!? Lol. Well back to the drawing board.

So what dimensions y'all think I should try on the next? I'd really like to get 60-65 lbs 28" draw
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: PatM on October 21, 2014, 02:43:05 pm
You have to move your bend well out from the fades if you are going to have grain lines running into the fades.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: PatM on October 21, 2014, 02:44:43 pm
Go with a narrow flatbow design, 64" long and kerf the tips.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 21, 2014, 03:03:16 pm
Go with a narrow flatbow design, 64" long and kerf the tips.

Bingo
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 03:17:44 pm
All I got is my table saw, my bandsaw took a dump on me. Would that be deep enough? I Have some hickory backing, it's not perfect. Or should I go with the boo?
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: bubby on October 21, 2014, 04:01:17 pm
Do a search for boo backed epe redux,  that bow has demensions that will work for you, if ya can't find it I'll dig it up when I get home, I did glued on reflexed tips and turned out great
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: vyadha on October 21, 2014, 04:09:40 pm
I dont post a lot but I lurk quite a bit and make lots of Ipe and Boo or Hickory bows.

The narrow flatbow that Pat suggested is the way to go IMO.

In my experience, hickory is just as reliable as boo and easier to work with. But boo is sexier.
Post pics of the hickory backing. That stuff can cope with some grain run off.

On another note, it took me 40 or 50 bows to start breaking them. As was stated earlier, totally overbuilt and way too safe. At least your getting the cracklackas out of the way now!
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: bubby on October 21, 2014, 04:16:24 pm
I just Googled it, 74# @29" 63" ntn with flipped tips, is that what you are wanting
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 04:34:53 pm
It's not letting the pix load. But yes those are around what I want for stats.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: vyadha on October 21, 2014, 05:09:42 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35703.0/nowap.html

that should be it
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 05:51:23 pm
Yeah, pretty much.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: adb on October 21, 2014, 07:11:55 pm
Do you think the Ipe overpowered the Ash? Are there successful Ash backed Ipe out there?

I've likely made 40-50 (or more) ash backed ipe bows over the last couple years. Most of those are stiff handled pyramid flatbows, ranging from 60" - 66".

Besides maple, it's my favourite whitewood backing material.

The only ash backed ipe failure I've ever had was this summer on a 135# ash backed ipe warbow.
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 07:46:25 pm
Your skills are quite a bit better than mine adam
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: adb on October 21, 2014, 08:01:10 pm
I don't know about that. Get yourself a design that works, and these bows almost tiller themselves. I think the design you're using is the problem. A laminate pyramid flatbow needs to have a stiff non-bending handle, otherwise you're going to continue having the failures you describe.

What you lack in experience, you make up for with enthusiasm! Just make sure you channel that in a good direction. What's that old saying about insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...  ;)
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 21, 2014, 08:12:05 pm
I've saw a lot of ur work, drooled over some. Ur a better craftsman than I atm
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Knoll on October 21, 2014, 09:06:01 pm
Bla ... am too new to be offering advice.  I exploded 2 attempts at Perry Reflex.  And getting my nerve up to try 1st backed w/ sumpin Ipe.  So this thread of yours is much appreciated perfect timing and am soaking in all the info you're getting. 
Best of luck with next one!
Title: Re: Ash backed ipe blew
Post by: Prarie Bowyer on October 21, 2014, 09:21:04 pm
I've list more ipe bows than anything else.

I dint use it anymore.  Boo or rawhide are all I'd consider backing it with.  It also likes to be longer bows.