Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: smoke on November 14, 2014, 10:21:59 am
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to have thick growth rings vs. thin ones? I have an osage stave that has very thin growth rings and I'm wondering whether it is worth the effort to attempt a bow from it. As usual, your insights, wisdom, experience, and 2 cents are most welcome!
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A picture would help. I have made and shot some pretty thin growth ring Osage with success.
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I like thin ring osage. I think it makes a snappier bow. There are things to consider like grain violation, knots and pins, etc. but a good rawhide backing will help with those concerns. You still have to do your part to get the best bow back you can.
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I've made oodles of unbacked osage bows with rings a 1/32" or smaller...only benefit to larger rings IMO is they are easier to chase and not violate....fat rings are beginners wood. As long as I can chase a ring I don't care what size they are...I'd be more concerned with your early to late wood ratio....if ya can't see the latewood and the early is thicker and only showing then its not very good,and ys better back it....but this is usually a rarer occurrence with osage...in general most times a ring can be chased and made into a unbacked selfbow....the question is how good are you at chasing rings?
Pics please...everyone's definition of "thin" ringed is different and can cause confusion and argument amongst bowyers.
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I won't be able to post a pic BUT I would estimate the rings to be right at 1/32". I'd say the latewood is thicker but only by a slight amount. I think I can chase a ring down if I take my time . . . Thanks for your thoughts everyone!
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Yeller wood is yeller wood. The tensile string side of the tree will have thinner rings
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yes worth a try for sure
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Im am not very experienced with osage, but with every other wood I have worked ring thickness made no difference by itself, except that on some very thin ringed locust I had trouble chasing down to just one.
What matters more is the mass/volume of the wood. heavier wood and lighter wood regardless of species need to be treated differently. And relatedly, the ratio of early to late wood. Some rings are so thin that the thickness of early wood is about the same, and it gets pretty porous and brittle. In Utah, I can see our 20 year drought in the outer rings of locust and mulberery trees. I'm having to cut down to the late 90's to find a good back ring.
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Personaly i like chasing thin rings better than thick ones. Probably cause im lazy and its a lot of work to rip thru a 1/4 inch of late wood. ::)
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+1 Blackhawk. Nailed my thoughts on it.
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I recently cut some staves from an ancient osage. The rings were the tightest I've ever seen on any tree! 1/32" or smaller. This thread was great for advise to me, thanks! Will
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Hope you guys don't mined me posting an example and having everyone comment on it, might help in defining the issue......here goes,
I think this stave is thinned ringed with a bad early to late ratio, especially around the 4" - 4 1/4" mark ....what do you guys think?
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I agree. Those are about 50/50. Make bow a little longer and a little wider than a normal osage bow.
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Smoke, if you have even the slightest objection, Please say so and I will take this to a separate thread but I have a sorta related basic Osage ring question: I can understand why leaving weak sapwood on the back would compromise the bow, but if you are into the heartwood anyway, why would a ring violation on the back do any damage? What are the mechanics of that?
Best regards,
Russ
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The number one rule in bow making is one growth ring for the full length of the back. Wood is made up of many parallel fibers that act a little like lots of mini ropes stuck together with weak glue(this is why logs can be split with an axe). When chasing a ring you are aiming to get full length uncut fibers to be able to take the tension load on the back. If you go through rings from late to earlywood then you have cut through those fibers and are relying on the 'glue' strength between fibers....this is not a good idea!
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... why would a ring violation on the back do any damage? What are the mechanics of that?
With Osage the dark rings have the strength of Iron, the pale rings have the strength of Chalk. That's why it's important to chase a ring, if you have violations it will just split apart along the exposed pale ring. (I can never remember which is the early and late, the pale or the dark)
You can feel the difference when you chase a ring...
Del
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Just to clarify, the light chalky stuff is early growth, the darker harder stuff is late growth.
I like a little tighter rings because it makes the fade outs look prettier. It has more striations. The thing I also have learned is that with any osage stave if you let it cure to the point where it almost sounds metallic when you knock on it, chasing the ring is a whole lot easier. The early growth is super chalky then and you are less likely to have tear out. Also good lighting is key to following the ring. Just my two cents. Danny
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Exactly. The fibers that you are counting on to not let the back break have been cut through at an angle.
It is possible to "decrown" a stave or use a radial split, as the back, even with osage, but the goal is still to leave essentially full length fibers intact (remember that "grain" runs radially from the center of the log, AND sort of perpendicular to that line at the growth rings themselves). But, that method is problematic. And the backs will be weaker, hence the bow wider, than on a chased stave.
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The thing I also have learned is that with any osage stave if you let it cure to the point where it almost sounds metallic when you knock on it, chasing the ring is a whole lot easier.
Wow, yeah! This is true of black locust, too. You can feel it when it is very dry, because it seems to get really hard and rings like a bell or xylophone bar when you tap it.