Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Tree_Ninja on December 10, 2014, 11:28:03 am
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Certainly a polarizing topic. I heard there are a few states that allow poison tipped arrows still.
I read an article in traditional archer (can't remember what month) that had a guy make a poison oak shaft.
I felt like it was a really dumb idea. Not to mention that poison ivy and oak doesn't affect deer at all.
Anyone have any thoughts on the subject , or had read the article I'm referring to?
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I did not know it until I started running with some old bowhunters but a lot of folks used pods back in the 60's here in SC. I was surprised but most said it was a hassel and they stopped. They did like the fact that they got their deer on marginal hits. I was checked by a game officer for pods once in the 80's and by then they were illegal here.
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My friend, Cathy, at Reptile Gardens breeds the poison dart frogs they have on display. Lemme tell you, as they transition from tadpoles to froggies they are the cutest little things. You just wanna give 'em a kiss! >:D
Actually, you can even lick 'em. Something about the diet they get in captivity stops them from dveloping much for the poison.
If you can get me a whole whomping bunch of Amazonian insects, we might be able to work a deal, hehehe.
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would hunting with poison tips not make the meat around the wound inedible? always thought that
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As I seem to remember hearing, a lot (all?) of the natural poisons animals produce are specific in regards to their toxicity re:method of introduction. Toxins meant to be injected are broken down in the gut, so the meat is still edible-when injected (like a snakebite) the poison is introduced directly into the bloodstream. I would do some reading about specific toxins before trying this out, I do not know how general it is.
SOM
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it depends but most poison would break down when cooked.
and i think that there's a good chance that if it works in the blood stream then eating it might well be harmless, like people drinking snake venom and being fine as long as there is no cuts or sores in the mouth.
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Back in my drinkimg days, over in Houston, I would buy a bourbon called "Bert Wheeler's Private Stock"--a rancid concoction that I am certain any aboriginal hunter could have tipped an arrow with and dropped a bull elephant in his tracks. The stuff cost $4.35 a quart--not in 1932 but in 1983! Looking back, I now realize that rotgut would have made a few shot glasses of rattlesnake poison taste like 50-year old Chevis.
Bear regards,
Russ
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The toxin used in pods was a prescription that somehow did not poison the meat or in anyway able to be transferred.
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it would be unpleasant to get an accidental scratch from your broadhead >:D
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What are "pods"?
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Never seen one, but from reading about them I gather that they were a sort of hypodermic gizmo that dispensed poison upon impact.
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I think a pod is a capsul that's sits behind your broad head. The "poison" used is a muscle relaxer that is far more potent in hoved animals then humans and it must be injected into the blood stream to work it is unlikely to aid in the rcovery of gut shot animals but should kill an animal in a few minuets if it hits muscle tissue.
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I can understand using poison when your life depended on the quarry, but now? That's just plain unethical in my opinion. We bark about the crap wheelie guys have to take out deer w marginal shots, like 4" broad heads with 5 blades on cam pivots. PRACTICE I say!
Cool topic all the same.
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I'm interested in the anthropology side of this topic, how cultures made/make it, pass it on, etc. The San bushmen in S Africa have those tiny bows that are ALL about the poison...wonder how much longer this age old tradition will be around? The dart frogs from the Amazon and how they synthesize the poison from the fire ants they eat. The report of the Calusa here in S Florida killing Ponce De Leon with a poison arrow. If I relied on my arrows to feed me, you bet!
Very interesting topic.
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To piggyback Parnell and PD, this is a very interesting subject, but I think it smacks of that attitude of replacing accuracy with a gimmick.
Gimmicks for fun and entertainment are all fair game, after all, remember how we all got a great kick out of the guy that built the all wood cam-action wheelie bow??? Absolute sheer genius, a hale and hearty finger flown at both sides of the wheel bow debate! Sadly, it didn't perform well at all. If he had he tried to take it into the field to hunt deer, we would have all booed him with well deserved derision.
Nonetheless, poison and arrows have a long history together.
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I remember the "pods" in SC back then. The chemical used was an anticoagulant that didn't let bod clot so any wound could bleed out a deer. Problem is it could bleed out you also. Small balloons were used to hold the powder and the shaft went through it and tied off on both ends. When the arrow went through the deer the balloon ruptured and released the poison.
My daughter worked in a pet shop in college and raised poison arrow frogs and they did get their poison from what they ate. The ones she had were pretty but not poison because they weren't eating what they had in the wild.
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You are spot on Pat. That is what I was told also. I was hunting in Sumter National Forest back then but I did not know a thing about them. My mentor did not use them and never said anything about them as I remember. They were probably already illegal by 68 or 69 when I started bowhunting.
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Does anyone wonder where the were "Toxophilite" originated? Does the "tox" have anything to do with "toxin"? I don't know at all. Just curious.
Regarding poison arrows, there is a long history of poison being used. And, if considered with an open mind, there is some validity to the argument that it helps to ensure a humane, clean kill. Obviously you'd want to hit something vital, but in the event of a miss, the animal would still be killed and, hopefully, found and used.
I'm not advocating its use, but it is something to think about.
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Does anyone wonder where the were "Toxophilite" originated? Does the "tox" have anything to do with "toxin"? I don't know at all. Just curious.
from Oxford dictionary: toxophilite
Origin: Toxophilus (a name invented by Roger Ascham, used as the title of his treatise on archery (1545), from Greek toxon "bow" + -philos "loving") + "-ite1"
but I just found this that makes the connection as iron-clad as anything you can choose to believe on the internet:
Student Dictionary
One entry found for intoxicate.
Main Entry: in·tox·i·cate
Pronunciation: in-primarystresstäk-sschwa-secondarystresskamacrt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -cat·ed; -cat·ing
Etymology: from Latin intoxicatus, past participle of intoxicare "to poison," from earlier in- "put into" and toxicum "poison," from Greek toxikon "arrow poison," from toxon "bow, arrow" --related to TOXIC, TOXIN
1 : to affect by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where physical and mental control is much reduced
2 : to excite to enthusiasm or frenzy
Word History The Greek word toxon means "bow" or "arrow." From this came the Greek toxikon, meaning "a poison in which arrows are dipped." Toxikon was borrowed into Latin as toxicum, which gave rise to the Latin verb intoxicare, "to poison." The English word intoxicate comes from this Latin verb. Intoxicate originally meant "to poison" in English, but now it is almost never used with this meaning. It is related to the words toxic, meaning "poisonous," and toxin, meaning "a poison." Both of these words can also be traced to the Greek toxon.
--taken from the Miriam Webster website.
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So a toxophile is someone who loves bows but could also refer to someone who loves the pick of the poisons...so the practice of tillering with a beer in hand, etymologically, is the correct way to go about it.
SOM
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SOM, I just had the laugh of the day! Thank you, SIR!
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Pappy
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Jeff with the well detailed etymological study.
SOM, with the near total deconstruction of the sobriety of the thread. ;)
I like both replies.