Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: jrmeza on December 30, 2014, 05:24:08 pm

Title: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jrmeza on December 30, 2014, 05:24:08 pm
Hey there PA board, I got some more noobie question! These however pertain more to hunting. I have never hunted, and I am just starting out on archery, my first shots ever fired coming from my own self bow. I like to jump right into the thick of it I guess! Also I am not in a hurry, It's winter already and I just started shooting, maybe next year...

ANYWAY, I am wondering how accurate one should aspire to be to start hunting when shooting a simple stick-bow off the hand and with no sights. I read on another websight that they feel comfortable taking shots on whitetails from 40 yrds away, too which I say HA. However that was not a traditional bow website, they they may have sights and more modern recurves. Maybe that makes a difference. I mean, where I am at right now, I think I could definitely hit a whitetail from that far, but I just don't see how they can comfortably aim for a clean heart shot at that kind of distance.

Right now, I am consistently getting within the 7.5 inch diameter circle on my target at 35 FEET, with an occasional flub of a shot. And maybe 1 or 2 out of 6 shots will be a bulls eye which is 2.5 inches in diameter. Is that any good for a noobie with no sites or arrow rest? What accuracy at what distance is recommended to even think about beginning to hunt with bows like these?

Oh and, since I am new to archery in general, is it recommended to get a cheap fiberglass bow with arrow rest  for practice while I am still learning?

Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 30, 2014, 08:43:17 pm
I would say any deer within 35 ft of you is as good as in the skillet.  Keep up the practice and add a few yards every now and then.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jrmeza on December 30, 2014, 09:09:27 pm
Haha thanks, i once read someone say something rediculous like "5 out of 6 shots for me is a bullseye, thet one shot that isn't is the reason that i dont hunt" that really made me put a critical eye on myself.

Do we primitive archers typically take 40 yard shots? Or is that more for them space age bows?  :P
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Pat B on December 30, 2014, 10:41:07 pm
40 yards would be way too far for me to shoot at a deer. My ideal distance is 12yds to 15yds with 20 being a maximum. There are times when the perfect situation occurs but you'll never know it until it is over. These are the same distances I'd use shooting a glass longbow or recurve, not just a selfbow.
 To keep from hitting the bulls eye only 5 out of six times would be to only shoot one arrow at a time and retrieving it before shooting again. That's usually all you get during a hunt. If you make sure that one arrow hits where you are looking you will be ready for the hunt. It takes intense concentration to be able to split that hair over the kill zone.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jrmeza on December 30, 2014, 11:38:36 pm
Wow nice advice Pat, i think ill practise the way you explained before i consider hunting. But while im still getting my feet wet, i think i just shoot the full quiver to save time practicing  :laugh: it is reassuring to hear you prefer to shoot from a max distance of 20 yard, i thought i was weak stuff when i heard people shooting at 40 xD
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Pat B on December 30, 2014, 11:58:24 pm
Close game makes for a better hunter.  ;)  Having a deer within 15 yards, and he doesn't know you are there...you win, and in his back yard.  8)    You will have to collect the trophy yourself with good hunting skills and good shooting.
You do have to have the basics fundamental down so you don't have to think to draw and shoot. You concentrate of where the arrow will go and let your subconscious mind do all the work...but that takes lots of practice and lots of concentration. Try to make every shot perfect. Don't stack all the arrows in the bulls eye. Find imperfections, smears, holes and put your next arrow there. Them move to another spot. For me the arrows stacked in the middle of the target breaks my concentration. Too many reference points for my pea brain. Aim small, miss small.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jrmeza on December 31, 2014, 12:33:53 am
Yea you have a point there! You know my target has a main target in the center and 4 "mini" targets on each corner, perhaps I should start trying to hit all 5 hit points for variety, and that way I know its not just a fluke shot. After all, if I keep aiming at the same spot, eventually a few will be bulls eyes, so changing it up this way I know that I got that particular point BECAUSE I MEANT TO!  >:D

Thanks a lot Pat, I like to ask the PA board because growing up, my immediate family never had anything to do with hunting, so this is wear I turn to for guidance!
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Pat B on December 31, 2014, 09:07:39 am
Like you I didn't come from a hunting family. I didn't start hunting until I was almost 30.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: RabidApache on December 31, 2014, 06:12:57 pm
Personally I aim to stalk within 30yds or closer BUT I practice out to 40-45yds or more. I hunt out West (AZ) and stalks under 20yds is dang tough if not near impossible. I find most of MY are stalks are between 20-32yds. So I practice a lot further than most. This doesn't mean I shoot long ranges in a hunt situation but it affords me Confidence.
I usually practice with 3 arrows. Not shooting from the same stance or distance but moving after every shot. I don't know if others do this but just through my constant practice I usually find that certain arrow(s) with good flight characteristics.
You'll find at longer ranges the flight characteristics of a good or bad arrow intensifies. For example I'll make a few arrows, shoot all of'em. After a few shooting sessions and noting which arrows shoot best. I'll choose only those special arrows to hunt with . The others arrows under 20yds I don't notice much of a difference.
But aside from equipment I also practice stalking. Simply moving and developing foot placement in gravel, rock or brush. In open country I approach my target in a side to side step. This prevents the legs from being seen as easily, keeps the human form to a minimum even when moving until you get into good cover. If you ever noticed in open country the first sign of a human being is seeing leg movement.
Its taken me alotta blown stalks and just being in the "woods" to develop good hunting skills and techniques. Keep practicing and growing that confidence.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jrmeza on December 31, 2014, 06:34:15 pm
Wow Apache, you must be really good at shooting, I cannot imagine shooting from that kind of distance! But you know, I am probably just being my usual young and eager self, it just takes time and practice right? I suppose if I can be accurate at 12 yrds with only a month or so of experience, with time and patience, that would be expected to grow substantially. It's just that you seem so far away from me at my skill level now, it sounds like an unachievable goal to me. But I am glad that I know what goal I should be shooting for and what I can aspire to grow to!
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: RabidApache on December 31, 2014, 06:40:24 pm
Shooting is half the battle ;).
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Pat B on December 31, 2014, 07:12:52 pm
I also believe in longer range practice. When you get good at longer range you are real good at shorter distances.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: mullet on December 31, 2014, 08:04:18 pm
Most of my game shooting is less then 16 yards, which I'm very, very, comfortable at. The laid back club I shoot at tried a little experiment one of the weekends most of us were shooting. We have 3-D targets set up in some thick vegetation, hunting situations down here. One of the members had a High Dollar, laser range finder. Everybody ignored the stakes and shot from where you felt the most comfortable. The only score we kept was if you made a killing shot or wounded or missed, and recorded the range you shot from. You could also move left or right to get a better angle shot like you were stalking or would really try to shoot.

  You would have probably been suprised at most of the Kill distances recorded, very few over 20 yards.

 My yard is small and the longest shots I shoot is 20 yards, but, from the door of my shop is right at 16 yards. The deer I shot at Pappy's this year was close to 16 yards, the coyote I shot in Florida with my Glass bow was 14 yards and most of the hogs I shoot are usually less then ten yards, stalking.

I suggest shoot what you feel comfortable shooting and don't get lured into the talk from all of the Gadget Boys until you see them shoot without all of the accessories.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jrmeza on December 31, 2014, 11:29:19 pm
Heck yea Mullet, thats the kinda cold hard facts i was hoping to hear. That is really reassuring! So what I gather from all of yalls advice is patience and practice, practise them longshots, but keep in mind a better hunter can get in closer and most safe and humane shots will probably be made in less than 20 yrds. Wow thanks a lot for all of the advice guys, and Happy New year btw, to many more shots, bows, and deers to take home!!!
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: osage outlaw on January 07, 2015, 11:05:35 pm
I set a limit of 15  yards when hunting with a selfbow.  I set up a few stands and a ground blind within 15 yards of heavily used trails.  Quartering away shots are nice.  Both of my primitive kills have were quartering away when I took the shot.  Make sure if you are hunting from an elevated position that you practice from that height.  Close up shots out of a stand really mess with my aim.  Good luck and post some pictures when you get one. 
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Chief RID on January 08, 2015, 01:59:11 pm
First shot of the day is a key as mentioned. This is the only shot that counts, at least 1st shot of every session. Every thing after that is muscle memory form practice and confidence building All of which are important.  Even if you had a 3D coarse to shoot, that 1st target is your only indicator of your shot during hunting, unless your are hunting a species that gives you multiple shots. Hunting regalia included.  I am a lousy shot so my max is at 17 yds when I am shooting good.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: crooketarrow on February 15, 2015, 09:53:57 pm
  If you  can shoot to 20 with a selfbow your  good. It doesn't matter how far you can shoot. It's  how close you can set up on a buck or gobbler and get a killing arrow off.

  In my 40 selfbow bucks the longest one has been 17 yards. 90% Been 10 to 12 yards.

 I love  to shoot but I suck so I have to be close Under. 20 for me I perfer under 15. It all depends on the blind site. That's usually no more than some back cover  for my ghillie.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: H Rhodes on February 15, 2015, 11:09:27 pm
"accuracy for most humane shots"?  It is a good topic and one which requires brutal honesty with yourself.  I hunted a lot with some friends this past season, both of them recent converts to self bow hunting.  They are both accomplished deer hunters with rifle and compound bow, but getting them to adjust their stand placements for this kind of hunting has been a process.  There were enough missed opportunities for them this season to have convinced them that maybe the old guy is right!  I have made a few long shots in forty plus years of this stuff, but most of the deer I have taken with a bow have been under 12 yards.  Hunting in the eastern hardwoods for whitetails usually means tree stands or ground blinds to me.  My favorite shot is ten yards and closer from a tree stand no higher than ten feet up.  If you go too high up, you can't double lung a deer as easily.  If you want to know why, try and pop two balloons nailed to the ground side by side.   The difference in one lung popped and two lungs punctured can be a difference in blood tracking distance measured in hundreds of yards.  I have taken many deer from 5 to 7 yards away, but believe me, you can miss at that distance if you don't pick a spot low in the kill zone and hit your mark.  Twistedlimbs (Ryan Gil) posted a great practice drill a while back involving a five inch circle and a cold shot.  I think he was on to something with his thinking.  Learning to hunt into the wind and get your ambush spot set up for a close shot is as important as your shooting.   If you can get those things working for you, if you can hit in a place as big as your hand, and if the cutting edge of your arrow point is scary sharp, you can kill deer with a wood bow.  Good luck next season. 
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Zedd on February 16, 2015, 10:17:48 am
I have been a lurker here for a long time, in fact I think this is my first comment. I shoot a lot with a compound and have recently moved into traditional recurves. I can consistently keep shots with a compound within a 5" circle out to 50 yards, while with my recurve I can barely keep them in a 5" group at 15 yards. I feel comfortable with a recurve at 10 yards, not further due to the inconsistent fliers. I want every single shot without fail to be in the kill zone. Would I shoot a game animal at 50 yards with a compound (or a recurve, assuming my grouping becomes that good)? No. It takes way over a second for an arrow to cover 50 yards from my bow, that is a long time. A deer can break wind and move enough to put the shot off in that time. I guess my point is there are two issues at play, can I shoot well enough every time to keep the shots within the kill zone, and is it safe to do so even if I could. I don't ever see myself shooting with a traditional bow further than 20 yards. Skill with a compound with a peep and sights takes much much much less time to acquire the skill level to shoot accurately than does traditional archery. My respect for a fellow who can shoot 2-4" groups consistently from a traditional bow at 20 yards is deep and profound due to the pure dedication required to attain this.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Traxx on February 16, 2015, 02:27:29 pm
Target archery is seeing how far away you can get and still hit the bull's eye. Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get and never miss your mark.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: PAHunter on February 16, 2015, 11:37:54 pm
I would challenge yourself to become more accurate.  Generally people are much worse shots when actually shooting at animals than when target shooting.  I try to take 25% off my comfortable indoor shooting distance to determine my effective hunting distance.  So if hunting whitetail you will likely want to be able to shoot 15 yards accurately.  This would mean shooting 20 yards well at a target.  Shoot some 300 rounds and keep score.  That which is measured is improved.  But then shoot a bunch of 3d or stumps at different distances to get used to the change in your trajectory (gap).  If you can do what your doing now at 20 yards instead of 10, then you will be accurate enough to hunt with that 15y range.

Of course there is much more to successful hunting than accuracy.  Shot placement is critical.  Or more importantly waiting for the right shot and being willing to not shoot if you don't have it.  IMO we owe our prey that respect. 

Last thought: of course compound bows are much more accurate than self bows.  However don't buy the message that self bows are poking and hopin.  One can become very accurate with a decent self bow at reasonable yardages. 

So get shootin and be thoughtful about your practice.  You'll be doing that group at 60 feet in no time!
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: bubbles on February 17, 2015, 01:22:55 am
The worse  you shoot, the closer you need to get.  Thats what im trying out. Compensate for my bad shooting with hunting / woodsmanship skills.  Hasnt worked yet :) i guess both skill sets need work.   
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: jayman448 on March 02, 2015, 07:52:44 pm
really its wherever you are comfortable from. one theory an archer/ hunter i know is: he shoots between50 and 100 yards (believe it or not) and gets pretty good at that distance. he figures pretty good at 100 yards means excellence at 20-50 yards when he hunts. mostly i figure if you doubt yourself at a distance, keep stalking.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 03, 2015, 05:34:35 pm
To be your best, shoot one arrow, pull it, back up and shoot again from a slightly different distance or angle. Multiple shots confuse your brain and compound your errors. Lets' say you really flub a shot and shoot again immediately, your brain is subconsciously confused as will be your ability to put another arrow exactly where you want it to go.

So shoot a shot, concentrate on your form and follow thorough while picking a very tiny spot to aim at. Form is everything, if you have perfect form and you can't miss.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive on March 03, 2015, 09:20:04 pm
as many have said before, Practice shooting further, but practice getting closer. I shoot nearly all my deer between 7 and 12 yards.  As far as accuracy, too many people train to simple hit a deer not efficiently kill it.  I like to keep my shots inside a 4 inch circle. At whatever distance I can consistently keep 10 of 10 arrows in a 4 inch circle, that is my effective hunting range.  Even with all that in mind, you still have the variable of the animal moving which is something you cannot always predict. Often times a standing deer will jump the string just a tad at the last second. I actually prefer to shoot deer walking at about 8 yards... If you bow is fast and quiet, they will never jump the string especially if walking.  People always shoot different on targets than on live animals. It's amazing how perfect you can shoot on a target in a controlled situation, and how easy it is to make a less than perfect shot on a deer at the same distance.  I shoot pretty decent, but I'll take being a good hunter over being a good shot any day.  Some folks brag about shooting a deer at 30 yards from a tree stand, I brag about getting 8 yards from a deer on the ground and killing it with a slam dunk shot. Keep your targets close and you game even closer!
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: mullet on March 03, 2015, 11:19:27 pm
I know that, Clint. The first deer I missed at Pappy's that morning was about 6 yards. And a Gobbler, straight down, my fault, waited too late to shoot.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: crooketarrow on March 06, 2015, 12:50:07 pm
  It's always that last 2 or 3 seconds that makes or breaks your shot.

 If you added all those 2 or 3 seconds up. Well I don't want to know the answer to that one. I'll just say alot.

When I know it's going to happen I slow down. Contrate on my spot (LANE) where I'm going to take the shot. Follow him pick my spot on him and lock on. For the shot.
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: joachimM on March 09, 2015, 07:15:23 am
The french bowhunting federation asks its members to send their hunting stats, among which distance to target (ffca.net).
These are the results shown in the latest Chasse magazine

type   distance (m)    distance (yards)
Hide/stand   14.7   / 16.1
Walk & stalk   18.4   / 20.1
battue   11.6   / 12.7
bow type      
compound   15.7   / 17.2
wood bow   13.4   / 14.7
glassfiber recurve   14.3   / 15.6
      
species shot   percent   
Roe deer   45   
Wild boar   28.6   
red deer   3.6   
Chamois   1.6   
Fallow deer   2   
moufflon   3   
red fox   6   
other   10.2   

Basically, it shows that most shots are take within 15 m/16.5 yds, and even with compound bows the average distance is less than 20 yards. 
Wood bows represent just under 10%, compounds 55.5% and GF 34.5%

Joachim
Title: Re: Accuracy for most humane shots with a self bow
Post by: JeremiahVires on March 13, 2015, 07:36:11 pm
It really just depends on how good you are.  And your equipment.  I've shot for a while, and practice alot during the off seasons, and I am comfortable hitting a white tail deer at 55 yards.  But I usually fire two.  Keep two arrows in the draw hand.

Good hunting, friends!