Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: alwayslookin on January 11, 2015, 07:24:40 pm
-
Well I finally signed up I've been a lurker for at least a year. I live in Florida some bow wood but not what I hear about on here. I started out slow. Made a couple that blew up at 20 inches (was erc in my defense). So then I just read every book I could find about primitive archery. Slowly I made two shooter but not I was trying for all low weight. Ones a 65 long bow shape 30lbs ish didn't put a finish on it because I never thought it would last. I am currently working on a 68 mulberry stiff handle I was trying 50lbs plus. I think that I will be shy a bit. I was thinking about heat treat but wanted to see what you think about heat treating wood it's all sapwood very thick rings feels good though. A lot of deflex though most natural I think but I could have put some in bending it when it was wet in the middle still. Went to put the handle in a noticed it was wet still inside. Let me know what u think about the tiller. It won't let me post a picture I'll will when I figure it out.
-
Post some info about where you are and what you are trying to accomplish. I am in central Fl. and there are several primitive archers scattered all over Fl. just ask.
-
Thanks duke I'm about 45 minutes west of Tampa. I'd like this one to be at least fifty pounds. After that I just wanna continue making as many as I can. I haven't figured out how to post pic's I think I have to take them again at a lower mega pixel.
-
Welcome to the fun. Can't wait to see your work. :)
-
Welcome, glad to have you join in the most fun you'll have being addicted. Looking forward to seeing your pics.
-
What's the largest picture you can post.
-
Welcome, if you use photobucket it sizes the pics and its free
-
Yep, I use photobucket. Can do everything from my phone.
-
Welcome, looking forward to seeing some of your work. I think you will like it here, very sharing bunch. :)
Pappy
-
I think you will like it here, very sharing bunch. :)
Pappy
what he said.
Welcome!
-
Hello and welcome to PA!
Another FL member! Glad to see it. Don't waste anymore time in trying to find someone to spend some hands on time with. Makes a huge difference.
FL is a big place, where are ya? I'm in Naples.
-
I am no where near Florida but welcome to you anyways!
-
Thank you gentlemen for the welcoming. I feel like a member already since I've been scouring the forum for a year. Now you all know me. I'm near Tampa. I'm gonna try photo bucket once I go on lunch.
-
I don't see a place to resize it on photobucket. Am I missing something anyone can chime in on I can take the photo in a lower quality if any one knows the actual maximum picture size
-
I believe I resize to 480X640. I think...
Joe
-
600x400 works for me. I just resize in MS paint on the computer.
-
Here it is
-
When you upload to PB it is automatically resized. Then just copy the URL a and paste in the body of your post.
-
Welcome in here!
Little Tiller advise:
THe right limb looks a little strange, you have two weak parts in there, but as one of the first bows, this a quite well ;)
-
Lookin good, you are stiff out of the fades, especially the right fade. I would even it up and get the whole limb working before you move on.
Is it white wood? Have you heat treated?
You are in the right spot near Tampa. Mullet (Eddie) is in Lakeland and can help you a great deal when he is free. There are many of us around your area. Try to go to one of the knap-ins coming up in February!
Let me know if i can help you.
Stephen
-
Thanks guys. Ya the right limb seems to have a hinge at the very end right before the stiff tip. It is mulberry. I'm worried about my weight though cause I think I'm already under. The right limb is already weaker but I feel if I take too much off I will be way under and be so much weaker on that side
-
How long is the bow? What # are you looking for? You might be able to pike it a little and pick up some weight...
-
I got home from work and it was raining so I did some scraping. Let me know what yall think. I think it looks a lot better but something is still off on the hinge. This is a low string I made one for it but it was braced to high I think. I am going to make a string now for it that I hope will fit. I made a string jig but I was looking at two different ones I know now. Moral of the story my numbers aren't what they are supposed to be.
-
It's looking better, do us a favor and try to clean up the background. The less clutter, the easier to see the bend. I still think you need to scrape the fade on the right a tad.. And the mids on the left look stiff. Also, definitely get a proper length string on it.
-
You are still flat immediately out of the handle on the right side.
-
I'm assuming that bow you are showing is the 68" mulberry. At that length, you should be able to shorten the limbs, some. Shortening the limbs an inch on each side could result in your picking up several #'s of weight. If you have a heat gun or such you should heat treat the limbs a bit. Give a little reflex...
P.s. Very cool dog!
-
OK thanks a lot guys. I'm gonna work on that right fade when I get home and move all the stuff outta the background before the next picture. Yes it is a 68 mulberry. I plan on getting my tiller pretty much done then heating both limbs and see where I am poundage wise. Ya that's my yellow lab he trys to help me but usually doesn't turn out that way. He's a awesome and funny dog but you better never leave any food out he ate my whole sandwich yesterday in a sec and a ball of aluminum foil because it had bread crumbs inside it.
-
Heat treating is generally best done before and during the tillering process to "pre-compress" the wood cells before they are compressed through the bending. This helps to reduce some set. Mulberry is good bow wood and not really considered "white" so it will do better without heat treating. I'd still give it some heat and a little reflex to give it that extra...oomph and springiness. Is your draw length much more than 28"?
-
OK so would it be to late for heat treating?yes I'm going for 28 in draw. The bow has 3 inches of deflex
-
Maybe just heat shape the limbs, just enough to get a slight reflex in them without scorching the belly or heating to deep. A caul would be good to form some reflex into it but if you don't have one made you could clamp the bow in a vise at the handle belly up and hang a little weight on each tip while you slowly heat the limbs till you get a little reflex in them. You should be able to remove some or all of the natural deflex without heating to the point of a color change appearing on the belly if you go slow and let the weight at the tips pull the deflex out.
-
Welcome! Contact "Mullet" Eddie Parker, in Lakeland, he will get you going in the right lane. Send him a PM. Like Parnell said you have some good bowyers in the area, as well as knappers.
It's about time you joined the addiction group. We don't help you to get off of your addiction, we encourage you to keep it going! Take it slow and easy on the tiller.
Wayne
-
Grab some olive oil or Crisco and a heat source. Give the limbs a thin coat of oil, give 'em some slow heat and then you can simply just apply pressure on the ground to give the limbs a little reflex just using your hands. Let it cool before you let off the pressure or have a wet rag handy to cool it quick once you've treated it some. Of course, you can use forms to induce a recurve and all but you don't need it to start. When I met Mullet about 5 years ago he showed me this. Don't fear it or love it, after all it's just a piece of wood!
Keep us posted...
-
Thanks parnell. One question should I put the reflex in before I finish tillering or after and how long after I put the reflex in should wait before continuing the tiller.
-
Put it in now. Generally, you would ground tiller a bow and then do your reflex/recurves before you start tillering. I would give it some reflex and "flip the tips" - that is, just kick them out slightly. Give the limbs a good toasting with the heat and brown 'em up a bit. Then, it's good practice to give the wood some time (overnight at least) to rehydrate some. I think that helps the wood to avoid stress fractures (chrystling).
-
OK sorry if I have to many questions parnell but when I am heating to put in the reflex. Do I do sections at a time like typical heat treating or do I try to heat up the whole limb at once. Say using the heat gun and just running it up and down the limb?
-
No worries about the questions! That's why we are here and I don't mind.
People will do it both ways. You can clamp and heat individual sections which is common with the recurve or just free-hand it.
As you are already in the tiller, I would free-hand it. Do like you think, oil the limb then run the heat gun up and down the limb until it becomes hot to the touch and induce some reflex, like a reversed ground tiller. You can focus more pressure on the lower third of the limb to give it some reflex and then really focus some pressure on the tips. Just be sure to get yourself comfortable to be able to hold the reflexed shape for several minutes while cooling with a wet rag if doing it by hand.
Use the force, young Jedi, your instincts will serve you well... ;)
PM me if you need contact information or want a conversation to answer questions. I don't mind.
-
Welcome! This folks here are awesome.
I just joined and found that posts usually get replied to
quicker than any other forum I had ever been involved
with!
Also, I have a Droid and down loaded photo reduce,
It's pretty quick and easy. I'm sure if you use apple there will
be something equivalent.
-
So I was heat treating the bow and introducing reflex and I used weights hanging off the tips and this happened please help guys
-
First, you do not want to use weights hanging on your tips to get reflex. The first place you heat is going to fold on you. you need to build a form that is narower that your bow limb, I use 1". The whole perpose of a form is to control the shape. with weights on the tips you have no control.
The crack is on the belly side, so you should be fine to just flood it with super glue and keep going. Make sure that after heat treating that you allow the wood to rehydrate.
-
Thanks man. That's exactly what I did saturate it with super glue. Should I avoid the super glue when tillering?
-
Did it appear when you were reflexing the limb or when you went to bend the limb in tiller after you had given it some heat?
Looks like what is called a "chrystle". I never remember the spelling...
They often form in a weaker area of the limb where a hinge is developing. Nothing to do but keep moving forward.
Where is that placed on the limb?
P.s. I'm also wondering about the cross-section. Is your back flat or rounded? Is that area a "low spot"?
-
It appeared when reflexing. It's located mid limb and yes my back is rounded with a flat belly. It doesnt look like a low spot. I put super glue in it and hope it stays it's will be my first real bow I'm proud of and I don't really have much else to work on that is dry yet and those aren't great anyways. :-\
-
Don't avoid it during tillering. Unless it is already looking like a hinge. As you scrape across it, if you notice that it needs more superglue, then fill it again.
-
How long do I let it rehydrate? And thanks Indian kid I did the same thing on my Droid seems to be the easiest way for me.
-
Hey parnell are you getting my messages on here? It keeps saying no sent messages after I send it. Weird?
-
Let me know what you guys think on my tiller. I know it's off I feel like the middle of the right limb is stiff. I finally got it bending more out of the fades but maybe to much
-
A useful tool is using a program like Microsoft Paint to draw an ellipse that shows where your tiller is heading. Don't touch the limb out of the right fade and maybe you want to heat it some. Work the mid-outer right limb and the last third of the left limb until you've got your ellipse. Go slow...a few scrapes at a time, exercise and check again...
-
Ya that show how horrible my tiller really is. Should I really take any off of the right limb since it's bending so much farther already? This bow is gonna be way under weight now unfortunately but hey live and learn right
-
Don't worry about the weight, just focus on nailing that tiller. You'll make weight on the next bow.
-
Don't worry about the weight, just focus on nailing that tiller. You'll make weight on the next bow.
Spot on advice. The tiller is first second and third most important. Remember you may pick up a couple pounds of you "pike" the bow a little. Get that tiller!
-
Thanks guys I will work on it tomorrow not feeling great today.
-
Let me know what yall think
-
Sorry I missed the update. I sent a response to your mail but am looking again at the image. Have a look - what do you think?
-
Better but still off so maybe this is a dumb question so bear with me. To get those outer limbs up in line with the arc I need to take wood off the areas that are below the arc? Is that correct?
-
That is not a stupid question. It is simply the learning process. You are seeing it through and that's what matters most. ;)
Consider the idea of what happens when a hinge occurs, the wood is too thin and the curve is too severe.
Your thinking is basically correct. You would get wood working where it is "below the arc", which would relieve stiffness and bring the other areas up. Tillering can be a tricky process, even for people who have done it 100 times.
So what do you think you'll do next?
-
The other thing I was going to mention is that it looks like you've got that bow on a tillering stick.
It isn't healthy for the bow to be pulled and left at draw for more than a couple of moments. You really want to think about a pulley system against a wall. Rig something up to be able to stand back and watch the bow being exercised as it is drawn.
-
Ya I was using a tillering stick but I make sure to not keep it that way for long I usually leave it there long enough to take a picture then study the picture. I plan on making a pulley system soon and before i start any other bows. It seems the more I think about tillering the more I confuse myself, but I love a challenge and my Indian blood keeps pushing me on. There is something so cool and inspiring about self bows to me. Question since it is so low under weight and I had planned on cutting it down to maybe bring up the weight would I do that now or finish the tiller I'm on. What do you mean what will I do next? On this bow?
-
Just got your email Steve . So if I worked on those mid limbs to bring them in line with the arc wouldn't that make it more whip tillered?
-
If you plan on piking the bow don't wait until. Where are you currently? # @ "?
-
The outer 1/3 of the right limb does seem stiff. The left one seems to have a spot that does bend...go carefully. Can you post a picture of it unbraced? It is a little funny.
-
I wanna say its high 20s low 30s at 28. Way under what I want . After I reflexed it with heat it ended up with deflex again but only half of its original deflex. I will get a unbraced pic when I get home.
-
What about flipping the tips? What are the benefits of that at this point?
-
Hmmmm. Honestly? As said before, concentrate on doing everything you can to learn from the tillering experience and use it for your next attempt! I know it isn't what you want to hear, butif you are out to your full draw the window is closing.
If it were mine I'd pike itand flip the tips and maximize the learning experience. My 2 cents.
-
I agree I'm trying to learn all I can on this bow so my next will be that much better. To flip the tips I'm guessing I need to make a caul or can it be done by hand? Is steam the preferred method for this?
-
It would be a good experience for you to build a caul. Check out the how to's and build alongs for ideas...
You don't need much to "flip the tips", ie., you aren't bending in static recurves...just some bend.
Make sure the wood is sanded very smooth before doing the work. Typically, people leave the ends much too thick when doing this, in my opinion. I always did.
Let me know...
-
Can't seem to find a caul for flipping the tips most seem to be statics or a lot more flip than I need. Might just have to wing it. Can I use dry heat instead of steam since I'm not putting a lot of bend in
-
You really can just grab a piece of 2x4 and create a curve that the back of the bow will follow. Sand the caul smooth, also so it doesn't ding your back. Consider cutting a rag to pad the form.
You can definitely use dry heat. Just get your Crisco out and coat the end, bring the temperature up slow and steady so it's deep heat and let the bend gradually and clamp. I'm thinking something along the lines of 30-40 degrees to start with the radius of the curve being around 4-5" out from the nock.
Something like that...
Hey, by the way, you should try to think of heading up to the Silver Springs knapp-in in February. You'll meet some of your FL crew.
-
OK I'll use that next time I already did it tonight kind of jerry rigged though. I used maybe to fast of heat though got some cracks on the belly in the bend. I was just kind of testing the limits to see what would work and what wouldn't since it was already so low under weight. It turned into my trial \ Frankenstein bow. Haha
-
Get that bow to shoot! It's a crusade at this point... ;D
-
I'm I am going to try today had to let it rehydrate. I think I need to wrap the areas where I put the bends in. It got some cracks because I think I didn't heat it long enough. I super glued them but was thinking about wrapping some cordage in that area for some extra protection. Should I use titebond on the wraps or super glue? What do you think steve?
-
You got the idea, fill 'em in and wrap 'em if you think they need the wrap. This is also why people will put in recurves/reflex early on in the process - just after ground tiller when the wood is still a little thicker. Usually the crack can be sanded out . Post a picture of the cracks and of your tips. Often they are left too thick, which is another reason why those cracks may have appeared in the first place. Are you able to sand down the thickness and get them out?
-
No its too thin to sand out I would comprise it. I can post a picture later today hopefully or tomorrow. Should I use super glue or titebond?
-
Always cyanoacrylate for that type of thing.
-
Always cyanoacrylate for that type of thing.
I had too look that up :-[
-
;D. All part of the learning process.