Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: CrazyHorse1969 on February 20, 2015, 05:47:13 pm
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Hello, all:
I just finished chasing a ring on a well-seasoned 66" black locust stave--and, goodness, it took some time. Does anyone want to chime in on Cherokee-style bows? I would like to build a target/hunting bow in the 40#-to-45# range and around 60"-to-62" in length, but I am not too sure how to go about a somewhat traditional Cherokee design. Any recommended dimensions out there? I am also thinking about backing it with deer sinew just because I have never tried backing a bow with deer sinew. But that is just a first thought.
Last, because I know I will hunt with the bow, any thoughts on dying the bow with leather dye? Brands? Colors? I have stained hickory self bows before using wood stain but never a leather dye.
Thanks...
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if you chased a ring and have a good back i wouldn't mess with the sinew. and i would keep the bow as long a possible. i also believe that most cherokee bows were bend through the handle types'.
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The back looks excellent. It took more than a half a day of work. Thanks for the advice.
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Bendy handle and long enough to accommodate your draw length. Most Cherokee bows were Black Locust and kept the width for most of the limb tapering to Diamond shaped nocks.
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Okay. Thanks.
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I've made a few of these bows. Simple D bows were what the Cherokee used. Not much taper on the tips but still fast good shooters. This is a good design for a first bow. As long as you are using all heartwood there is no need to back it. Locust is one of the best bow woods hands down for a fast bow. Locust is also weakest in compression so backing it if futile.
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bout 1 1/2 wide,,,,leather dye works nice and is easy to use,, black locust is beautiful any way,,
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What Brad says about it's look. just don't put a shiny finish on it. Use grease and no deer will see it.
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Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.
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I used a paraffin finish on the last woodland style bow I made......per Dean Torges formula. Works great. Amazing how rain will bead up on it.
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Traditional Bowyers Bible Vol. 2 gives a lot of information on Cherokee bows.
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Here ya go. From the Encyclopedia of Native American Bows Arrows and Quivers
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag255/wizardgoat/IMG_3248_zpsuyynk4zr.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/wizardgoat/media/IMG_3248_zpsuyynk4zr.jpg.html)
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag255/wizardgoat/IMG_3249_zpseygmffdp.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/wizardgoat/media/IMG_3249_zpseygmffdp.jpg.html)
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag255/wizardgoat/IMG_3250_zpski0hzoxj.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/wizardgoat/media/IMG_3250_zpski0hzoxj.jpg.html)
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag255/wizardgoat/IMG_3251_zpsz56smxnm.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/wizardgoat/media/IMG_3251_zpsz56smxnm.jpg.html)
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All good advice from the guys above, save the sinew for another bow the locust won't need it. If you do decide to use leather dye I can say from experience that locust takes the dye nicely but you may want to dilute it some with alcohol to get the color you want and not cover the nice grain in the wood. Locust also looks nice without any added color, be sure to show us the finished bow. :)
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Draw length? Jawge
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Excellent. Thanks for the images too. So rectangular limbs and no handle section. I think I will shoot for the following dimensions: 62 inches (60 inches nock-to-nock) in length; around 1 3/8 inches wide at the center; around 7/8 inches wide at the nocks; and in the 40#-to-45# range at my draw length, which is 27 inches.
The grain on the back of the stave is real pretty, so maybe in the end I will change my mind about the dye job. I have read that "white bow wood" sticks out like a sore thumb in hunting situations (particularly in low light situations), but perhaps that is either personal preference or myth. I like an earlier suggestion of NOT putting a glossy finish on the bow, which makes sense.
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Looks like you are having fun! I'd go 62-64" at that draw length of 27". Enjoy. Jawge
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Yes indeed. Thanks!
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Just for the sake of clarity... 'White wood' is used to reference the white sapwood as used in bows like hickory, elm, and ash... you removed the sapwood from your locust stave, so it's not considered a whitewood bow.
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Interesting. Never knew. The grain--certainly not the color--of the back of the Black Locust stave I have sort of looks like the grain of an Osage bow I built.
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This style bow often gets very little respect because of it's extremely simple and pragmatic design. No complicated grips, fades, recurves, decurves, gadgets, geegaws, or foo-furraw. Just a plain wooden spring designed to throw an arrow. For that matter, once you have made one, you may never need to even take out a tape measure or ruler to make another.
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yes the design :) is under rated,, it is a very efficient design, and will shoot hard,, the wood is gold color in varying degrees,, I have one from 20 years ago,, and it is still dark gold,, they dont seem to get dark like the osage,,but a very beautiful wood,, and does look a little like osage,, :)
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Good point. I just sketched out a design on the back of the stave, and I have a lot of wood to remove. Any suggestions as far as quick wood removal? I usually just whack it away with a hatchet.
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yes the design :) is under rated,, it is a very efficient design, and will shoot hard,, the wood is gold color in varying degrees,, I have one from 20 years ago,, and it is still dark gold,, they dont seem to get dark like the osage,,but a very beautiful wood,, and does look a little like osage,, :)
Do you remember how you finished your bow?
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yes I put several coats of tung oil,, and then sprayed poly over that,,
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Good point. I just sketched out a design on the back of the stave, and I have a lot of wood to remove. Any suggestions as far as quick wood removal? I usually just whack it away with a hatchet.
Good Lord, NO! With a Cherokee design you would necessarily use a tomahawk! >:D
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DEFINATLY NO CHEROKEE BOWS IN ANY MUSEUMS OR THAT ANY OF MY FAMILY HAS EVER SPOKE OF (WHO ARE CHEROKEE ) ARE SINEW BACKED ..... also al herrin has a book called cherokee bows and arrows . Inside there are a few really good dimentions . Also the cherokee made 3 types of bows . The hunting D bow ... the war 70-90 lbs D bow ... and a handle bow (which was basicly the hunting D bow witha handle and arrow shelf. ) the later has zero hand shock and is my favorite to shoot how ever most people think full compass d bow with diamond shaped knocks which were crud in design and carved very square with a knife to accommodate the Bears intestine used for a bow string back then
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Good point. I just sketched out a design on the back of the stave, and I have a lot of wood to remove. Any suggestions as far as quick wood removal? I usually just whack it away with a hatchet.
Good Lord, NO! With a Cherokee design you would necessarily use a tomahawk! >:D
I have one of those too. I guess I will get to sharpening it and start whacking away.
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I've made a few of these bows. Simple D bows were what the Cherokee used. Not much taper on the tips but still fast good shooters. This is a good design for a first bow. As long as you are using all heartwood there is no need to back it. Locust is one of the best bow woods hands down for a fast bow. Locust is also weakest in compression so backing it if futile.
Lots of cherokee d bows had equal sapwood to jeartwood ratio . But some were also all heartwood . Lots were also made from hickory and mulberry too but black locust was the fav... some osage was traded to the eastern cherokees and once we were moved to oklahoma (where my mother was born) osage became the favored wood. They say black locust is " yellow locusts cosin from the east " ( yellow locust is not honey locust ... its osage i believe )
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DEFINATLY NO CHEROKEE BOWS IN ANY MUSEUMS OR THAT ANY OF MY FAMILY HAS EVER SPOKE OF (WHO ARE CHEROKEE ) ARE SINEW BACKED ..... also al herrin has a book called cherokee bows and arrows . Inside there are a few really good dimentions . Also the cherokee made 3 types of bows . The hunting D bow ... the war 70-90 lbs D bow ... and a handle bow (which was basicly the hunting D bow witha handle and arrow shelf. ) the later has zero hand shock and is my favorite to shoot how ever most people think full compass d bow with diamond shaped knocks which were crud in design and carved very square with a knife to accommodate the Bears intestine used for a bow string back then
I just put in a request for the book from my library. Thanks.
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Thanks Jesse, I'm sure you know more about these bows than me, but I have never seen a old bow made from anything but black locust. I have seen hickory and osage but post 1900. The Cherokee had been "civilized" for some time before the trail of tears and the removal to indian territory. Any solid info on bows pre 1800?
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Yes. Thanks, Jesse.
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Thanks Jesse, I'm sure you know more about these bows than me, but I have never seen a old bow made from anything but black locust. I have seen hickory and osage but post 1900. The Cherokee had been "civilized" for some time before the trail of tears and the removal to indian territory. Any solid info on bows pre 1800?
I only know what i have seen and been told thru oral tradition . Osage was traded to the east so i was told but black locust was THE wood i will ask my mom if she knows anything about pre 1800 bows. Better yet i can call the cherokee heritage center in tahlequah oklahoma As soon as i know i will post the info ... i have a d bow of osage i just posted on here a month ago or so u should go check it out ... it s modeled after al herrins bows but i made it slightly sronger
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Thanks Jesse, I'm sure you know more about these bows than me, but I have never seen a old bow made from anything but black locust. I have seen hickory and osage but post 1900. The Cherokee had been "civilized" for some time before the trail of tears and the removal to indian territory. Any solid info on bows pre 1800?
I only know what i have seen and been told thru oral tradition . Osage was traded to the east so i was told but black locust was THE wood i will ask my mom if she knows anything about pre 1800 bows. Better yet i can call the cherokee heritage center in tahlequah oklahoma As soon as i know i will post the info ... i have a d bow of osage i just posted on here a month ago or so u should go check it out ... it s modeled after al herrins bows but i made it slightly sronger
I checked out your "D" bow pictures, Jesse. Sweet. That is sort of what I am looking to build. Thanks.
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My best friend uses a mixture of beeswax and bear fat to seal his bows naturally. As far as dyes something dark is what i tend to favor
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My best friend uses a mixture of beeswax and bear fat to seal his bows naturally. As far as dyes something dark is what i tend to favor
I think you meant to post this in a different discussion.