Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: CrazyHorse1969 on March 19, 2015, 10:02:02 am
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Could someone out there explain (or, define), in layman's terms, "set" (as it relates to bows, of course). I think I know what it means, but I am simply looking for some clarification. Thanks!
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Compressed(and likely stretched) wood cells that have exceeded their elastic limit.
A couple of guys will be along soon to rant about the difference between set and string follow.
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Thanks. Is it fair to say that as a result of "set" a bow limb could then not fully snap (for lack of a better word) back into shape after a bow has been shot and then un-braced? In other words, the limb starts to take on a slight bend.
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Compressed(and likely stretched) wood cells that have exceeded their elastic limit.
A couple of guys will be along soon to rant about the difference between set and string follow.
I got your back Pat... ;)
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Compressed(and likely stretched) wood cells that have exceeded their elastic limit.
A couple of guys will be along soon to rant about the difference between set and string follow.
I got your back Pat... ;)
;D ::) ;D
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SET IS COMPRESSED WOOD SELLS It comes from 3 things. Once there compressed the wood sells can't be reconstructed. ONCE SETS THERE IT'S THERE
(1) unseasoned wood to start with. Poundages not a problem it the woods seasoned.
(2) wrong design for (BOW) wood or design aplyed wrong.
(3) poor tillering, to much wood removed to quicky. Fast tillering can = SET SLOWWWWW DOWNNNNN when tillering there's no bonus for finishing quickly.
I promass you when you finsh a tillering your bow your the day. Leave it untill tomorrow when you come back. I promass you ,you'll see places need attention.
String follow is wood cells not destoryed as much as it would if it takes set. The amount of cells destoryed (compression) predicts the amount of set takes place.
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Got it. Thanks.
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String follow = natural deflex. Set = deformed wood from being stressed.
Rant over.
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Set is the permanent deformation of any spring due to it being stressed.
It even happens in the steel valve springs in your car.
If you want a bow with no set, then don't bend it >:D
Del
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Nothing to add except I have always wished I could nail down wether or not or how much of set is contributed to stretching of the back. Sawing a bows in half a few times does suggest that the great majority is in compression, but I think some woods do stretch, can't prove it and not sure it really matters.
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String follow = natural deflex. Set = deformed wood from being stressed.
Rant over.
If it's natural how can it be string follow? Strings don't grow on trees and bend them.
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Nothing to add except I have always wished I could nail down wether or not or how much of set is contributed to stretching of the back. Sawing a bows in half a few times does suggest that the great majority is in compression, but I think some woods do stretch, can't prove it and not sure it really matters.
That is likely dependent on how much resistance to compression that the bow has. I can se an extremely compression resistant wood stretching a softer elastic backing to a greater degree.
If you backed Ipe with Yew sapwood or Elm for example.
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String follow = natural deflex. Set = deformed wood from being stressed.
Rant over.
Nah !
The commonly accepted understanding and usage is:-
String follow is temporary additional deflex after a day's shooting and will recover over a few hours unstrung (or overnight).
Set is the amount that doesn't recover, e.g It's permanent.
Del
(I'm happy to be corrected if someone has a better definition)
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Here comes Jawge....
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Well shiza, if im wrong id like to know.
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Set - The result, mostly due to belly compression/compaction, of a bow’s inability to return to its original shape after use. For instance, if a bow was constructed from a bow stave with 3” of reflex and after tillering, shooting in, and unstringing, the bow then shows 1” of reflex, the bow is said to have taken 2” of set.
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Well shiza, if im wrong id like to know.
Well we do tend to think of string follow being due to the influence of a string being used to bend the bow.
The trouble with all these definitions is that only the bowyer knows what the natural state of the wood was.
You can make a bow with a natural curve that looks like it was left braced for 50 years but that's not going to be the same thing as a straight stave that ends up looking like that.
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Well put Pat. Would both bows be said to "follow the string"? Probably, yes. But one has taken lots of set, the other has taken none. Only the maker knows which is which and in this case, "string follow" is a difference without a distinction.
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Set is damage to the wood. Reflex and string follow are antonyms, the former being the measurement past the axis of the handle away from the archer when unstrung and the later being the measurement past the axis of the handle toward the archer when unstrung. Deflex does not necessarily equal string follow as it can be followed by reflex greater than the deflex-- but set can then be greater than starting reflex, leading to string follow.
Start with a completely flat, no reflex/deflex/string follow bow, and string follow will be equal to set. Start with two inches of reflex and take three inches of set and you will have one inch of string follow. Start with one inch of deflex and take one inch of set and you will have two inches of string follow.
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String follow = natural deflex. Set = deformed wood from being stressed.
Rant over.
How many definitions have I read about this subject, to many to say. Thanks Sleek for a simple explanation that others seem to make mountains out of mole hills. ;D
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+1 what Jawge said :)
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String follow - When unstrung, if a bow's limbs are bent toward the string side such that the tips are behind the front of the handle, they have string follow, or follow the string. String follow can be due to intentional design, natural growth, or 'set' from use.
Whataya think?
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All that matters is the condition of the wood when it is in whatever profile it holds. I've never heard of someone looking at a curved tree and saying that one side has string follow.
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Agree, but "string follow" has a negative connotation, or so it seems to me, suggesting that set has caused the condition. If in fact that is not the case, does "string follow" accurately describe what we see? Me thinks not, but that's where we are.
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Nothing to add except I have always wished I could nail down wether or not or how much of set is contributed to stretching of the back. Sawing a bows in half a few times does suggest that the great majority is in compression, but I think some woods do stretch, can't prove it and not sure it really matters.
I've done the same thing Badger - i've only done it with tension strong woods though. It's what really opened my eyes to trapping.
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;D ;D ;D Pop corn please, with butter if you don't mind. ;) :)
Pappy
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Slimbob, string follow doesn't inherently have a negative connotation for me. It's just a term used to help describe the side profile of a bow and CAN be viewed as beneficial. Folks are increasingly seeking laminated glass/wood "string follow bows", intentionally made that way for their shooting characteristics.
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Got a string follow glasser headed my way in a few. Im excited to shoot it.
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Fair enough. Back in the day, at least among my compadres, when we said "that bow follows the string" it was not meant as a compliment to the maker.
Does that String Follow Glasser (made that way), shoot the same as the glasser that developed through set, the same amount of string follow? I would bet not.
My only point is, the term falls short as a definition if it describes both extremes. Especially in wood bows where excessive set is a performance killer and an indication that something went wrong somewhere.
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What Pappy said, + beer:)
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;) :) :) There are some many different views, all boils down to what every you want to call it set/string follow/giving in / giving up, crushing cells or stretching the back it is preferable to keep it to a minimum. :) A little ant bad [always going to have a little with wood ] a lot not so good. ;) :) :) Now what about that pop corn and as Roy reminded me, a cold beer would be nice also. ;)
Pappy
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Pappy, Roy pop-corn and beer.....maybe push them chairs back away from the fire just a little,eh >:D
rich
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What pappy and Rich said, with cheese on it.
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Just looked up the meaning of set. It means to place something down someplace, or a pair of something makes a set. Like set the pop corn and beer down here, or look at the set on that chick:)
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Ok. Hard to argue with the wisdom in THAT! I'm in on both.
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Dances with Squirrels spiked it!
"Set - The result, mostly due to belly compression/compaction, of a bow’s inability to return to its original shape after use. For instance, if a bow was constructed from a bow stave with 3” of reflex and after tillering, shooting in, and unstringing, the bow then shows 1” of reflex, the bow is said to have taken 2” of set."
String follow is how much the bow looks like it's strung when it isn't as caused by tillering.
Deflex (bend towards the string" is heated in or natural.
All I can say is "Set happens!" :)
Jawge
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I had an ironwood bow that ended up with a good 4" of set and when I heat treated it clamped it came out straight as an arrow. What happened there? From what I've read if the fibers are crushed they're crushed.
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I did not know how much of a can of worms I was opening up by asking about "set." Very informative...and entertaining too.
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Its always gets debated Scott, but its not debatable. Similar to black is black and white is white.
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Its always gets debated Scott, but its not debatable. Similar to black is black and white is white.
Understood.
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We cant possibly discuss low set tillering and monitored set while tillering if we cant differentiate set and string follow.
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We cant possibly discuss low set tillering and monitored set while tillering if we cant differentiate set and string follow.
By the way, the whole reason I asked is because I backed the Black Locust bow I have been working on with rawhide, which turned out better than expected, considering it was my first time, rechecked the bow's tiller, etc., then proceeded to shoot the bow 50 times or so. All went well. After I unstrung the bow, I noticed a bit of "set" (at least what I thought was "set") in the upper limb, a limb that--many steps back--I had to heat treat because it was both badly twisted and bent. I am beginning to think that perhaps I heated it either too much or too many times. In any case, the bow shoots straight and snappy, and the tiller is the best tiller job for me to date. Plus, it has not blown up in my face...yet. I will shoot it another 50 times or so today, and if all goes well finish it off and call it good and on to the next bow.
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It's all just degrees of change from original profile on an integer scale.
But if you are studying your finished and shot in bow and determining exactly how much it creeps back after unstringing you need to find something more productive to do.
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We cant possibly discuss low set tillering and monitored set while tillering if we cant differentiate set and string follow.
By the way, the whole reason I asked is because I backed the Black Locust bow I have been working on with rawhide, which turned out better than expected, considering it was my first time, rechecked the bow's tiller, etc., then proceeded to shoot the bow 50 times or so. All went well. After I unstrung the bow, I noticed a bit of "set" (at least what I thought was "set") in the upper limb, a limb that--many steps back--I had to heat treat because it was both badly twisted and bent. I am beginning to think that perhaps I heated it either too much or too many times. In any case, the bow shoots straight and snappy, and the tiller is the best tiller job for me to date. Plus, it has not blown up in my face...yet. I will shoot it another 50 times or so today, and if all goes well finish it off and call it good and on to the next bow.
Soooooo your saying I may not owe you another stave? Im glad its worked so far, had a good feeling it would.
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It's all just degrees of change from original profile on an integer scale.
But if you are studying your finished and shot in bow and determining exactly how much it creeps back after unstringing you need to find something more productive to do.
Perhaps I should have been more clear, I am not brooding over and unnecessarily monitoring a slightly bent limb. I am just trying to deduce where I may have gone wrong, so I do not make the same misstep again down the road.
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Sounds like you didnt go wrong. Every wood bow will loose its original profile after being bent, braced, drawn and shot.
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We cant possibly discuss low set tillering and monitored set while tillering if we cant differentiate set and string follow.
By the way, the whole reason I asked is because I backed the Black Locust bow I have been working on with rawhide, which turned out better than expected, considering it was my first time, rechecked the bow's tiller, etc., then proceeded to shoot the bow 50 times or so. All went well. After I unstrung the bow, I noticed a bit of "set" (at least what I thought was "set") in the upper limb, a limb that--many steps back--I had to heat treat because it was both badly twisted and bent. I am beginning to think that perhaps I heated it either too much or too many times. In any case, the bow shoots straight and snappy, and the tiller is the best tiller job for me to date. Plus, it has not blown up in my face...yet. I will shoot it another 50 times or so today, and if all goes well finish it off and call it good and on to the next bow.
Soooooo your saying I may not owe you another stave? Im glad its worked so far, had a good feeling it would.
Well, I still have another 1,950 shots to go. ;)
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boy, it has been a long winter!