Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bubbles on March 19, 2015, 01:34:03 pm

Title: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: bubbles on March 19, 2015, 01:34:03 pm
Hi everyone,  I picked up a sweet, pipe straight elm stave from PatM and I'm attempting my first Stave static.  Shooting for 50#@26".   Right now it is at 50#@20", full brace.  Been through 1 heat treatment. 
What does everybody think so far? I'm working this one slow, as I want to get it right.   The bottom working limb is 1" shorter (I've been on an asymmetrical kick lately) and the limbs are 2.25" wide at the fade, tapering to 2" at mid-limb, tapering from mid-limb to tip.  I'm observing some set happening around mid-limb, and I'm fighting a bit of limb twist, as usual.    I'm thinking the top fade needs to come around a bit more

(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Mobile%20Uploads/VIDEO2257_0000018711_2_zpsjijpoul8.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Mobile%20Uploads/VIDEO2257_0000018711_2_zpsjijpoul8.jpg.html)
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0914_zpse9giz8jx.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0914_zpse9giz8jx.jpg.html)
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0915_zpsjnhjzn6w.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0915_zpsjnhjzn6w.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 19, 2015, 01:36:26 pm
I like the bottom and I think the top fade is a tad stiff.

Nice hooks by the way!
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: Pat B on March 19, 2015, 01:43:28 pm
I agree with Pearlie. Also it looks like the outer half of the bottom limb has a twist. Check the thickness of both sides if that limb for uneven thickness. 
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: Chief RID on March 19, 2015, 02:15:41 pm
I think it is looking great. The masters have spoken and you are well on your way with that elm bow. I really like the lines and the handle area. Can't wait to see it come to full weight and draw. Heck, it looks finished and ready to go now. Good job Bubbles!
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: PatM on March 19, 2015, 02:21:34 pm
I like the looks of that. I do think the top needs to come round a bit more.
 Was the stave as clean as it appeared to be? Did you reflex it while you were heat treating?
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: sieddy on March 19, 2015, 02:23:00 pm
Hey Bubbles that is a sweet looking bow it hope it comes out like you planned. I'm just debarking a 61" Elm stave (which is looking ok so far!) and so I will be returning to look at your pictures frequently! :)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: bubbles on March 19, 2015, 04:59:06 pm
Sweet sieddy, let us know how it goes. 

PatM - Yep, it's pretty flawless. there are a few tiny pin knots distributed through the top and bottom limbs.   I only reflexed it 1".  I waited until some set started to show up and then I heated it back a little past straight.   I didn't want to go too crazy with the heated in reflex. 

I'll work on those fades a bit.  I was unsure of just when I should start attacking them to get them to come around. 

(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/IMAG0919_zps5r69chvz.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/IMAG0919_zps5r69chvz.jpg.html)
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/IMAG0918_zpsqb5dxce2.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/IMAG0918_zpsqb5dxce2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 19, 2015, 06:22:58 pm
Gorgeous grain run out, gotta be even side to side to look that nice.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: PatM on March 19, 2015, 06:28:48 pm
You certainly have a lot of width there to get the bend working right up to the handle.  You can get most of your extra work out of there.
 Probably best to go for about 2-3 inches of cooked in reflex  to ensure ending up with a straight profile.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: mikekeswick on March 20, 2015, 03:45:35 am
I personally would narrow it to somewhere around 1 7/8 or so. " 1/4 is too wide for your intended weight. At least if your elm works like ours over here. I've made quite a few bows just like yours at higher weights and never needed a full 2 inch width.
That top fade needs some attention. Be very careful with that outer limb - do not touch! Removing inner limb width will help this problem too.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: Pappy on March 20, 2015, 05:12:54 am
That's looking good, I would probably go with Mikes advice to get the fads moving a bit and you should be there. :) Nice work. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: bubbles on March 20, 2015, 11:37:27 am
Im erring a bit on the side of caution with the width, As this was one of my first stave  recurve.  Perhaps on the next one I'll go narrower. After i get this one in the bag. 
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: PatM on March 20, 2015, 11:44:14 am
The extra width will stand you in good stead when I come over and haul it back to 32" to test your workmanship.  ;D
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 20, 2015, 12:21:42 pm
I made a lot of static recurves like that years ago.  I kept limb width to about 1 3/4", I would also heat in about 10" of reflex on some of them.  I agree with what others say about the tiller, get the inner limbs working more especially the top limb.  Keep the belly flat
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique
Post by: bubbles on March 20, 2015, 02:50:01 pm
Here's the update - This is 51#@21" - looking a little better? Taken a lot of scrapes off those fades.
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/VIDEO2264_0000029982_1_zpsgkdtxaqw.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/VIDEO2264_0000029982_1_zpsgkdtxaqw.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: PatM on March 20, 2015, 03:19:28 pm
Still looks like the upper needs to come around more.  I would focus more on balancing it and exercising it  back to your full draw even if the weight is looking too high and then drop the weight as needed with width reduction.
 If you get it just right and still have to drop the weight  you run more of a risk of throwing it out of tiller by re-scraping the whole limbs.
 The extra width allows you to bypass the never pulling it over target weight rule.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: mikekeswick on March 21, 2015, 03:17:06 am
Looking better but it's still that upper inner to mid limb.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 21, 2015, 08:11:56 am
Mike nailed it. Id suggest staying away from that last 12" of limb on each. You don't want soft tips on a static, it will jar your teeth free.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: Emmet on March 21, 2015, 08:57:10 am
To me it looks darn near perfect for having a shorter limb on the bottom.
Removing some from the mid limb on top would give more limb travel  on the top limb giving some nock travel.
If I'm looking at the limb timing how can it shoot better by increasing top limb travel?
(http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/diyfrank/pictures/b.jpg)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: PatM on March 21, 2015, 09:09:52 am
Because it will tip the handle forward a hair which will still leave the limb in the same position. See how the handle is leaning back a bit if you flip the pic vertically? Better to have it straight or a tiny bit forward.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: bubbles on March 21, 2015, 12:04:12 pm
Ok, I've straightened it out and  thrown some lines on:
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Elm%20Static/Tillering_zpsk3h6ryux.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Elm%20Static/Tillering_zpsk3h6ryux.jpg.html)

I think I may have had a few misconceptions - I've been tillering so the handle sits straight up and down at FD and the top limb comes a little bit further back than the bottom, using the straight handle back as a reference.  I also try to have my arrow sit close to horizontal - the elastic draw check on the arrow bump it up a bit when it hits my hand, but the arrow is pretty close.   Making the top limb work more would make that arrow sit a bit lower would it not?   Should I be shooting for a bit more of an upward angle on the arrow?

I also thought with statics you could be more judicious with outer limb movement because they keep the string angle optimal throughout the draw.  I guess I got carried away. 
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 21, 2015, 12:22:47 pm
You  always want more limb travel where there is more working wood.  If you make the outer limbs work too much they will chrysal especially with your limb profile, if not right away then over time. 

The tiller looks better but you still need to get the inner limb working a bit more on the top limb, more so near the fade now
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Critique 21"
Post by: mikekeswick on March 22, 2015, 04:13:26 am
Agreed. Just a smidge more and you're good to go! Make sure you are exercising it a lot now and also shoot some arrows at your tillered to drawlength, try to get a feel for any handshock there may be -it should disappear when the limbs are well balanced.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Update
Post by: bubbles on March 23, 2015, 04:10:56 pm
Allright, here it is at 23", it's 53# there.  I've been working the fades quite a bit, even took out the rasp and moved them in towards the handle a bit.  They were more like 3" fades than 2" fades.   Also gave the top limb a bit more bend.   The top limb is taking a bit more set, so I'm wondering if I took it a bit too far.   It shoots at 23" with very little shock, so It can't be far off.   Let me know your opinions.
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Elm%20Static/VIDEO2273_0000020111_zpsxhsace0y.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Elm%20Static/VIDEO2273_0000020111_zpsxhsace0y.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Update
Post by: Chief RID on March 23, 2015, 04:23:56 pm
What do you do now? That looks about perfect to me. That is a really sweet looking bow. I bet the chrony will like it to.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static Tiller Update
Post by: bubbles on March 29, 2015, 03:44:35 pm
Well, here it is a my FD.  54#@26"
Top limb took about 1" of set, bottom limb 3/4".  Single heat treatment with 1" of reflex added. 
FD
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Elm%20Static/VIDEO2283_0000037522_zpsmwmqn8r7.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Elm%20Static/VIDEO2283_0000037522_zpsmwmqn8r7.jpg.html)
Unbraced.
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Elm%20Static/IMAG0922_1_zpsokl7t9hh.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Elm%20Static/IMAG0922_1_zpsokl7t9hh.jpg.html)
Braced:
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/mikemeusel/Elm%20Static/IMAG0920_1_20150327115432490_zpsfnd6ygao.jpg) (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/mikemeusel/media/Elm%20Static/IMAG0920_1_20150327115432490_zpsfnd6ygao.jpg.html)
Shoots really nice. Hardly feels like 54#.  I think I have to lighten the point weight on my arrows to make 'em spine right for this bow as it shoots  harder  than my straight limb 50-55#'s.   
What do you guys think? Any suggestions for peaking and tweaking?
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2015, 05:09:34 pm
  That came out great, any time you come out with 1" or less of set you are doing something right.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: paco664 on March 29, 2015, 05:44:11 pm
that is a nice looking bow!! congrats
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: sieddy on March 29, 2015, 06:21:46 pm
That looks right on the money!  :)
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 29, 2015, 06:25:11 pm
Very well done
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 29, 2015, 09:52:02 pm
Sweet bow. I bet it shoots great to. Short hooks and light wood should equal quiet and smooth.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: bubby on March 29, 2015, 10:53:40 pm
Sweet bow. I bet it shoots great to. Short hooks and light wood should equal quiet and smooth.




X2 nice job
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: IdahoMatt on March 30, 2015, 01:43:23 am
That thing turned out very sharp.  Can't wait to see it all shined up.  Great job on the tiller
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: bubbles on March 30, 2015, 01:58:08 am
Big thanks to everybody who gave advice along the way, and thanks for the compliments.   I feel like i have a better understanding of the top limb-bottom limb relationship with assymetrical bows now. I'm very  very happy with it.  Now i gotta convince  PatM  to hook me up with more of those sweet staves.....

Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: mikekeswick on March 30, 2015, 02:49:17 am
Good job  ;)
I agree with the point weight issue you mentioned.
Title: Re: 62" Elm Static FD pg2
Post by: PatM on March 30, 2015, 09:21:02 am
  That finished up nicely.  Let me know when you want to try another.