Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: arachnid on April 28, 2015, 02:38:29 pm
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A half a year passed since I cut My first stave and now is the time to turn that sucker into a bow!
since it`s the first stave I`m working, I don`t want to screw it up. I have big hopes to have a new bow to shoot.
I want to make this build along so I can hear from the pros and end up with a shooter rather then fire wood. I`ll indicate that
I don`t have a full length stave but 2 twin billets, so I`ll have to splice them together (a first time as well).
So, let`s get started....
First up- Chasing a ring.
I`m about done chasing a ring on the first billet. I only left the "islands" around the knots.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tqBUOYh-TFw/VT-utW7qxYI/AAAAAAAAGnc/H57-donBaiI/w737-h553-no/20150428_185954.jpg)
I got the hang of ring chasing but still don`t quite understand how to work the knots.
I`ve watched several videos on that topic but I feel it`s still unclear to me. I don`t want to make a mistake and cut through the knots. So, any clarification would be most welcome. If anyone can post pictures, it`ll be great.
Here are a few more pictures of the knots up close:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C9eoC4KdUNw/VT-vVqrJTUI/AAAAAAAAGoA/RVXQ3M0-KPQ/w737-h553-no/20150428_190017.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HVue8s4GTeA/VT-u9B_wCZI/AAAAAAAAGno/oLrEYAQOmnI/w737-h553-no/20150428_190001.jpg)
Oh, BTW..... I don`t have a drawknife so I made this improvised so called "drawknife" from a file..... works pretty good for now...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MNmtnMyfsA8/VT-vlD1d_xI/AAAAAAAAGoM/Eppn-GY2tG4/w737-h553-no/20150428_190216.jpg)
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I have a mulberry stave also so I will be following this closely. Good luck.
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Main thing with knots is take it slow. Use your draw knife or a pocket knife blade held 90 degrees as a scaper. Work the knot for all angles. I don't have any pictures. If you look up clay Hayes on you tube he has a video about chasing a ring. It's pretty helpful on knots if I remember correctly. Happy bow making!
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Main thing with knots is take it slow. Use your draw knife or a pocket knife blade held 90 degrees as a scaper. Work the knot for all angles. I don't have any pictures. If you look up clay Hayes on you tube he has a video about chasing a ring. It's pretty helpful on knots if I remember correctly. Happy bow making!
I've watched his video plenty of times but he doesn't show how to finish the knot.
So, if I undestand currectly I remove the wood around the knot Only? What Do I do withe the top? Ther's a little dot on top of every knot that is shown even through the sap wood. Can I remove it until I get to the ring I'm chasing?
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Removing wood from the knot to the growth ring your are chasing is what I have done. Looks like you have a high crown on that stave. Small diameter trees and spliced billets are not something I have seen done as far as I know. Do you have a pic of the side profile of the stave? I like your improvised drawknife.
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There you go....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dK28yZWca5g/VUCoTAhXO9I/AAAAAAAAGok/GtO_9syhRh8/w1153-h865-no/20150429_124448.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tZ1wNGZqEjM/VUCobmF8t9I/AAAAAAAAGow/yLwSxYjjRjQ/w1153-h865-no/20150429_124506.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dyAC5mjKx10/VUConBztZoI/AAAAAAAAGpA/jMxEfhHc5_g/w1153-h865-no/20150429_124539.jpg)
How high is too high for a crowned back?
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I don't know how much is too much. I am working a high crowned sassafras stave myself. Half Eye works a lot of crowned bows, many from branches, that pull hunting weights but he is amazing in his craftsmanship. I think we are on shaky ground. Just keep it as wide as you can. At least you have a wood with a better reputation than mine. I'll be watching, especially the splicing. Sorry I am not more help but I am very new to this with only one bow to my credit. It was made many years ago. It was from elm and it lifts splinters on the edges due to grain violation. I will be watching your progress.
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Leave knots a little wider. Let the wood around the knots swirl. Tiller the knot to appear slightly flatter than the rest of the limb.
I am not sure 6 months of seasoning would make that stave dry.
Looks like a very challenging stave. It ha s quite a few knots and a crown. I would leave it at least 2 inches longer.
Jawge
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Thanks a lot George.
I might leave it to season a few more weeks after I rough it out.
I am up for a challeng.... and the stave cost me nothing so nothing to lose.
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I decided to take the leap of faith and work a knot.
This is what I`ve done- I used a round scraper and sand paper to clean up around the knot. I carfully removed the
sapwood left on top of the knot and scraped it gently and slowly, mainly around.
This is what I ended up with:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-stkIB1lU0mQ/VUDPiExSJnI/AAAAAAAAGpk/Pz64gM4UgW8/w737-h553-no/20150429_153045.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bv076HHUFcA/VUDPQ72SgPI/AAAAAAAAGpY/4O8xfVfAHcI/w737-h553-no/20150429_153015.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Jf00CUA6QkY/VUDP4aHTLJI/AAAAAAAAGp8/iKf5dP5G3mQ/w737-h553-no/20150429_153107.jpg)
It seems like it still have a tiny bit of the upper layer of wood on and around the knot. I`ve read in TBB1 that I can leave a bit of wood on and around the knot.
From what it looks like, can I call this knot done? If so... Yeepee.... on to the next!
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Looks good! Sandpaper should clean it up nicely. You have a bit of crown there, but not to excess. As Jawge said, be sure to follow the grain around the outside of the knots and leave a little extra length and I would say that your well on your way. Josh
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Check out the post on this page about knots and then take a look at my post of a knotty Osage stave I'm working on. The info I was given is that ring you are trying to chase follows the contours of the knots so just follow the ring. Hope this helps, Patrick
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50668.195.html
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Check out the post on this page about knots and then take a look at my post of a knotty Osage stave I'm working on. The info I was given is that ring you are trying to chase follows the contours of the knots so just follow the ring. Hope this helps, Patrick
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50668.195.html
Also the curved edge of my pocket knife was my favorite tool for the knots in my post. Patrick
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Check out the post on this page about knots and then take a look at my post of a knotty Osage stave I'm working on. The info I was given is that ring you are trying to chase follows the contours of the knots so just follow the ring. Hope this helps, Patrick
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50668.195.html
Also the curved edge of my pocket knife was my favorite tool for the knots in my post. Patrick
I have a spreading knife with a round edge I turned into a scraper.
As a general question, if the worst happens and I cut through a knot, can I back the bow with rawhid a keep going or it`s a gone`r?
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That is true, you could back it with rawhide if you cut through the ring. But I would suggest chasing another ring instead. I guess since your chasing a ring, you are trying to build a unbacked self bow? By the way could you post a picture of the end of your stave so we could see the Rings?Patrick
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I am trying to build an unbacked but I'd rather back it then chase another ring. The crown is high as it is...
There is a picture of the end of stave up the thread.
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Do you have a cabinet scraper? Here is my process for chasing a ring. I get it down to the ring I want +1. I then file or rasp it down to the vessel layer. You'll know when you're there. But don't go through it. Then I remove that with my cabinet scraper. That results in an almost completely intact ring underneath, that is also smooth. No sandpaper required.
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I am trying to build an unbacked but I'd rather back it then chase another ring. The crown is high as it is...
There is a picture of the end of stave up the thread.
The pic of the end of your stave is kinda hard to see. But from what I'm seeing, you have pretty thick rings. You shouldn't have a problem at all following the ring over the knots. Take it out side and utilize the natural light. It's the best thing to see it with. Take your time and keep posting pics,your doing well so far. Patrick
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Arachnid, check out the pics I posted yesterday on the "Help with a lumpy Osage?" thread for working around a knot. Maybe it will help you out.
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Arachnid, check out the pics I posted yesterday on the "Help with a lumpy Osage?" thread for working around a knot. Maybe it will help you out.
I`ve seen the pictures Drew, very helpful. Thanks!
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SOOOOOO..... after a week or so of on and off work, I finished chasing a ring....... on the first billet. :-[
I got to say the working around the knots is a real pain in the *** and I do hope I did it right.
I now have a 34" long billet with a single growth ring exposed on the back.
I took a picture of every knot on that stave, feel free to critisis my work it will only make me a better bowyer.
Notice I left some extra wood around the knots, just in case.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AhXbCe9iDWc/VUxsLaOMpOI/AAAAAAAAGts/FWAeQCnG90A/w1153-h865-no/20150508_105437.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5I1xMRglufk/VUxsQXO-1_I/AAAAAAAAGt4/pgZ0kt52c00/w1153-h865-no/20150508_105441.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q4hy3Ac3dpo/VUxsVYEJV3I/AAAAAAAAGuE/yWyMdLX_j1I/w1153-h865-no/20150508_105446.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-u1k7i6YCGQc/VUxsZogFIWI/AAAAAAAAGuQ/atLMPtQciOo/w1153-h865-no/20150508_105457.jpg)
Now, I don`t know what`s going on with this knot. Is it violated? Did I cut through the ring? I don`t know!
Hopefully it should`nt be a problem since it`s pretty close to the end of the billet and should be ate the handle/fades area.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--4k4zdSYE5w/VUxseC1y57I/AAAAAAAAGuc/nkg1xT6DkuE/w1153-h865-no/20150508_105503.jpg)
Well, thats it for now.... one more billet to go...
Please post your comments and tell me if I did good or not.
Thanks a lot,
Dor
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looks like you are doing good so far! Now its time to clean up those knots. Take your time, I use my pocket knife to slowly remove the wood around the knots. The ring that you are chasing will grow right with the knots so just start at the base of your knot where you left the little island of wood and keep following the ring right up and over the knot. You want the entire back including the knots to have that single growth ring. Looks like you have one that is on the edge of your stave, start with that one and take your time. Its a tedious job but once you do one then you will be able to do just about any others that you come across. Clean one up and then post a good pic of it like you just did and we will check it out for you. Patrick
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It also looks like you have a lot of tool marks on your back ring that you have cleaned up. Try using some kind of scraper and sand paper to clean those up after you get your knots squared away. You want that back to be as smooth as glass. But be careful not to go through your growth ring or you will have to chase another one. :laugh: Patrick
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Well....last time I posted on this thread was in 8/5/15....
A half a year passed and I finaly found the "mental state" (meaning- I wanted a new bow :laugh:) to go on with this bow.
I left it with one billet done.
I went on with the other billet, chased the ring and got a clean back. I only have one concern - this knot here:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Q2TIOe0HlKX4Gf5BSFH6AakEd0Jm_92An67LNI8A1R2qfBMCeabGY-JhvfYKwodAyQfmN-ISqSMw_Vn5zFKICGuNHU9HmIetn9bzr28PXxyI627LncHCon7FmSKJqoHYLZdlFZKH_5Dm1O4QeYmrRDymNV1ERd-huz4FqbUbI94XSPUpbHOlZwqJY7QCIL3woFjDXd1kM1QLdFzRStNtQERu8OEZJi2XxX6VHupHXDdGB8lfRDPJbWm0eVQ6nhF_Lg4rqhwm5xbgW5Cc5GMRHa9XKsA7MjsWTBFGFAFyYo4DlnWmmactoIFdAhXoeIrPqrr9_cnZbTCxbYT5W8t1V2LlmeKH5Q5LNsq1v4su3XLgXlIe1GXAKd8zcbU2YHdnR2inxho82JqzWuoZ-UQJtvidsbQGlqvHvkPsKxHbDwbiv2lrPeYFORAiDMHqt4y1DsM_EQPs8qP00HRHSxzSqf8MwymMRiJbxVfx0NJ2R6T3a514Df-kETc7lIQYQ8qxOpRH9vYwfOfgisq_CLxiA9eyTL5fF1hu1zq9KwWFS32ZUglpB96sRT7wwMYGW3kt1ZFJ=w1144-h643-no)
I cleaned around it as much as I couldbut as you can see, there`s a little twig sticking put of it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/21TO5lGma8nZmPxpvCCu7tDr5tTixlSR457XyDOONhe-dvU9ZTmHmSg26zHMPXaV3uGRQHUzuOAcP_MPA9_2Rs-spyVuTsIsdmEa3djPlZBMwtYh2_4jkMAGXNTVvPap8UqWMzoBYTkzOV_lfPhUgyxDmBGE8kgPbuMf-qjqR9virDrjBYD_6s3Lp0oGeJ9Ju-qbWC_bc26ksMVyugynzCzJ0HkbLjOauFmsRXfLneK7QiUw8vfLdv2Oi0azKWV-ctam_Ta-v3jmYNz91p6OwIPNn9eA1jACZursYgYMjV1zClXCr_qoSLQqHY4qccYlqzyq5CcqeEcVtQUmPZfVhc0RhIxCmcTRGorxML1-tcZoVqXBfL6H5pmvZuQaPdGO2ZxaxmnsJWHKBwdIq6AfG2KU7y66cWFFGamGX4rYbyU-rROcgGgdZSOfPIlROs5z144gs0yd8Thv9PMxUY6kQRVFRU3csN0I-8WA8gClmPvkCiWXbvcreloq0iovpFYYqtGaZYAyJxWM3hSzXhgx58FFWbeDwga7n9YNoQ6C5gkvD0bz-cNUesTf-RR1odavonG4=w562-h316-no)
So, what do I do with it?
(After that, the next stage it to splice the 2 billets and make a stave)
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Oh, check out how the color of the first billet (to the left) changed in the past months....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eDXQJUk9qytaX3qMl6aBjhCD4Y4tZoOav_jk-7baJp9k7VePv1sm7xEQq1c0JSBVKsVA0sayCEJsagP8KddTD0WeSRdQYaEe2qt32uokLDmhOzqFhwJwcjF8ZNUDM_ZofsysSEewZ9Bn2gUfAC0NySoETLszT3-a8yMhzyZo_OVHtIeXAld9OjxTQgv-FJTczvLNor8qOd_h9Vmn0ZOaWYHfKoy81G9L0sUEDeWl9YK5gpRibPb9Ojxm12NrFqET_uHunIh5CyKExQIWSm9t7wm5mAfHsSUGW5NCLw1VxxtVSB0K9x5ecYTaLK6q6c2TQsLen9bRoaSIZl9JHJ9RXMnp_F75vRrC2_jxOIRzNkSjkSLxrIyrVBfX377jCjXVVbkoW1Jtcm5qhw99prKY2fiwFxWxLdpuZNmHQMHS7Pg1eInNP9zZ9-LxkwcOJJwWMCRiCBSbVkEXBpGMyb2B969nu7gaUQYt7oTEJulN3Y9fq34pIZlGcak6C9e26GdU2UY_QB_NaZIU7MxlUD0ArXIrTCw-w9X9e__XqFDL3V-RwOxpDM5Xrez_Okc-OeaPTBCp=w1144-h643-no)
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I cleaned around it as much as I couldbut as you can see, there`s a little twig sticking put of it.
I'm pretty sure you can cut it where it comes out of the knot
you may even carve into the base of the twig
just be sure not to cut the knot itself
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Thats what I thought.
Now it's been raining here and the billets got wet! I guess I need to let them dry.
How much time does it take?
Can I splice them in the meantime or do I have to wait until they dry and then splice?