Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: sleek on May 28, 2015, 06:26:45 pm
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My buddy bought 45 acres of land in Nowata Oklahoma. Half pasture half four wheeler trails through woods. We are prepping the land to try our hand at an annual ( hopefully ) archery event first weekend of September next year and every year after. Any money earned will go back into the land to improve the shoot for the next year.
There will be two 3D courses set up, one for the kids, one for kids with their folks ( closser target marker ) whick will be scorable for contest, a clout shoot, target on a zip line, chickens and maybe turkeys for sale ( he raises them ) at a reasonable price for good fresh campfire fare, bon fire at the end for all the bow arrow scraps and a years worth of brush pile, knapping pit, fishing pond about 10 min walk, swimmin lake 20 min drive, alcohol will be ok but we WILL end quickly any roudiness, primitive camping only but next year we do it we should have water from funds raised. Porta potting s of course will be there. There is room to park a few rvs. There are two gravel roads, one gated entry to park trailers to free up room for campsite areas. Also there is an old paint factory on property we are going to convert into a bow making shop.
Vendors welcome of course, probably going to need to know what your vending and if you need power. Eventually we will have power and water to most rv sites and a community showers/sinks. This is not flat land on the 3D shoot so it will be interesting, though its nothing like Tennessee. It is very beautiful in the woods though. Mostly oaks. Trails will
be marked well and weeds killed off to ward off any poison ivy/oak. Also drink stations along the way for the thirsty. We have four wheelers to get around the trails quick if anybody needs help.
September is last month for most states before archery season opens and this is a great last chance to really see what you can do with your bow before you go out to the woods and hone your target skills. Also last big archery event of the year before winter hits and locks us all in until spring MoJam.
Im posting this now to get a feel for possible interest, its over a year away I know but we need to get a feel for things now for camp site lay out, parking, local regulations, approx number of porta potties ( thats important ya know ), etc...
or if any body is even interested at all. Also ideas for events and such would be great.
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Sounds like a helluva good idea! If you need weedkiller let me know. No need for you to buy that. I have an ex-brother-in-law that lives in Parsons KS that would love to have a shoot that close by. Josh
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Sounds like a helluva good idea! If you need weedkiller let me know. No need for you to buy that. I have an ex-brother-in-law that lives in Parsons KS that would love to have a shoot that close by. Josh
Well golly gundoc, I may just do that. But I sure would have expected it! Thanks to you both!
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Good luck sleek I've been trying for a while to get a trad shoot going here but just keep spinning my wheels
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Thanks bubby, mind if I email you about your shoot?
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Go ahead, but you might get more info from someone that has succeeded :laugh:
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Id like to know why you haven't?
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That will be awesome Kevin! I can't wait to throw in as much help as I can.
I wonder if the moderators would consider moving this to, primitive shoots and events?
Maybe it will get a few more views. Patrick
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Is this the beginnings of the Oklahoma Classic?????
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I think you just named it jdub. And in honor of you we will give you first pick on campsite, always upwind of the johns, and next to the bbq pit!
Edit: 'course, gadda make sure the twin oak boys dont mind the name first....
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It's a bit far for me to pop over and shoot ::)
Good luck with with undertaking, it sounds wonderful.
Just a thought... You may want to re-phrase this bit? >:D
"... though its nothing like Tennessee. It is very beautiful... " ;)
Don't want to inflame the natives :laugh:
Del
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Good luck with it sleek ,just don't be discouraged if the turn out isn't huge the first year, The TN. Classic had 27 shooters the 1st year. you just have to try and put on the best event you can and folks will see that and spread the word, it will grow but will probably take some time.
You are on the right track putting the resources you make back into the event and trying to make it better, also be careful what you wish for, it can turn into a monster that consumes a lot of time so be prepared for that. Also our motto at TwinOaks is [This is for them not us and try and make sure everyone goes up the hill with a smile on their face] if you live by that it will grow. The this is for them is the hard part because you always want to get in on the fun also so you have to be the kind of person that catering to others and seeing them smile is the fun part for you. Like I said good luck and if I can help in any way just ask and I will try. :)
Pappy
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This sounds awesome! I'm in.
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Nowata, Oklahoma
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So, lebhuntfish had a good idea, to buy an industrial ice machine for the campers. Looking up info on them now to find out about brands/sizes, cost of repair etc...
Any other ideas like that would be greatly appreciated.
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I've kicked the idea around a few times, but decided that there's no way that i can pull it off at this stage of my life. Not only that, but traditional archers are few and far between in my area. Primitive archers are as rare as hens teeth. One of the things I found in my exploration of the idea is that the 3d targets alone are a huge investment. I've also been told that its a good idea to start a club and lease the ground to the club. The club insures the range and protects you from liability. I would think getting those two things accomplished and preparing the range and campgrounds is gonna be a handful to accomplish in just over a year. I would cover the basics first and slowly increase the amenities over time. Again, I've never done this, so take my input with a grain of salt. How far from Nowata is the property? It's been a while since I rolled through there, but I remember there being a few convenience stores and a bigger grocery store. If it's not too far to town, that will help. Even though Nowata is a little further from me than OJAM, it would be easier for me to attend due to the proposed timing of your event. I really hope you can pull it off. Josh
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And its only an hour from craig ratzats place who is usually at Flint ridge the week before Labor day.
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I've never been to Oklahoma, but this sounds like a good reason to go. If you start it off I will make the trip. I'm WAY closer than Del so might as well plan to go. I figure, the more we support this sort of thing the more opportunity we have to "pass it along".
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Just remember, I can be your repair man. We will just have to pay for parts. Maybe a cheap larger chest freezer. And then we can bag up some of the ice so you don't have to have a huge machine. Patrick
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You set your goals pretty high with many great ideas. I am on my 4th year with putting on a memorial archery shoot to honor my dad at my place. Targets are going to be one of your biggest expense. Good ones are really expensive but they last a lot longer that the cheaper ones. I have a backhoe that made life a lot easier for those larger tasks with target area placement clean up and sand bunkers. The sand bunkers were a luxury but it moves things along when kids shoot.
Insurance is going to be another annual expense.
Have fun with your new adventure. After 4 years and lots of help we have our shoot just about down pat.
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Insurance I am certainly going to be researching. Targets, im going to spend my tax refund on them. Not gonna lie though, some may wind up as hay bails with burlap style targets over it and a deer painted on. I will be searching online for used ones, and talk to the Oklahoma self bow society who hosts ojam and see if they can help too. An established club like that could sure help out.
Edit: Forgot to add, I measured just under 4 miles from my buddies land to the homeland grocery and a gas station. Town aint far, however the town also aint big lol... but that makes things nice also.
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Our archery club which has been around for over 50 years still shoots at hanging cardboard targets in front of a sand bank for their 3 D course for their outdoor hunting league. Sometimes they paint the targets which looks nice.
I have also bought 3 D targets off of craigslist and at yard sales. To toss a little fun into the shoot I have a 3 D moose, 100 yard shot and a 3 D buffalo that is a 50 yard shot. keep in mind we do not score. We shoot just for fun.
This year I am having a coon shoot at night. I will be using hanging cardboard targets and will put them on the backside of the existing sand bunkers that I use with the 3 d targets. Kind of a double use for the bunkers. We also have a 21 arrow salute to honor my dad an others that have died over the year.
This will also be an issue: HELP. I am lucky to have 6 grandkids that live on the property.
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Help.... yeah its just my buddy and I. We both have wives and I have a 9 year old who will be put to work. But all it will take is time. Time exists, just gadda use it.
Btw just clocked it, 21 miles from bartlesville to the grounds. So walmart aint to far.
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Insurance for us is about $800.00 a year. Ice machine, [we just bought 3 years a go by the way] was $3,500.00.[500 lbs a day] you think that is a lot but it's only 50 bags and can go quick with a large crowd camping. Nice to have but not a must have to start with. Targets, well you can spend ever how much you want. We are buying 70 Rineharts this year, don't even want to tell you what the cost of that is or you may change your mind,but sometimes at the IBO shoots you can buy a set of 20 after the event is over for a very good price, like half or more off.[check their web site for events in your area] We have done that 3 times but decided this year to just keep them all. You have got some good ideas but like I and others have said you have to start small and build as you go. It just cost to much to do it all at one time. We also Incorporated the club and set it up as non profit, so no tax returns to fill out, just keep good records and no 1 member can profit from what the club does, that helps protect the land owner, which in our case id me. :) Everyone wants to start out big but believe me it is better if it starts small and you can add and grow as the numbers do. lots of growing pains.
Pappy
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Insurance for us is about $800.00 a year. Ice machine, [we just bought 3 years a go by the way] was $3,500.00.[500 lbs a day] you think that is a lot but it's only 50 bags and can go quick with a large crowd camping. Nice to have but not a must have to start with. Targets, well you can spend ever how much you want. We are buying 70 Rineharts this year, don't even want to tell you what the cost of that is or you may change your mind,but sometimes at the IBO shoots you can buy a set of 20 after the event is over for a very good price, like half or more off.[check their web site for events in your area] We have done that 3 times but decided this year to just keep them all. You have got some good ideas but like I and others have said you have to start small and build as you go. It just cost to much to do it all at one time. We also Incorporated the club and set it up as non profit, so no tax returns to fill out, just keep good records and no 1 member can profit from what the club does, that helps protect the land owner, which in our case id me. :) Everyone wants to start out big but believe me it is better if it starts small and you can add and grow as the numbers do. lots of growing pains.
Pappy
Insurance: Talk to MANY insurance agents in your area and even research online as well. Bargains can be found, but not easily. If you can pull it off with no claims for several years, ASK the carrier to review your policy. Our non-profit got a major discount after 3 yrs of no claims (especially when we explained to the carrier that we had given 330 public appearances to over 30,000 people in that time without so much as a hitch. They quickly realized we knew what we were doing)
501(c)3 Non-profit status is not impossible. In fact, seeing how you have not collected or spent the first dollar, it will never be easier than it is right now. Once you have been in existence and have handled money, it becomes exponentially more difficult as you have to dredge up records and everything better balance out to the penny!!! Pappy mentioned incorporating, too. THAT is the single most important thing you can do. It ain't all that hard either. But it will save your butt in case of some legal trainwreck. You need that firewall to protect yourself and your family from someone out for blood. It is not a "get out of court free" card. The firewall between you and financial ruin is thinner than a wet tissue IF you diddle the books to financially benefit yourself or otherwise use the organization for your own purposes.
Our non-profit benefitted from a small business incubator on the campus of a local college. It exists to help small businesses get started, but it also helps non-profits and other organizations with paperwork, pointers on organization, legalities, etc. Contact your state's department of revenue, or state's attorney office for directions. Good chance you have something similar down your way and they don't charge for their services!
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Much much appreciated thoughts above.
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Sounds great .. only 4 hours away ... i can follow doc down there :)
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Like JW said ,you need to get all the financial and legal part figured out and done first thing, we did it when we started the club. :) The insurances folks come down every few years to check things out, you need to be sure you have good signage to warn folks about any dangers/first aid kits here and there and fire extinguisher at the place designated, if it looks good and organized [neat and orderly when the show up you will have a better chance of getting a deal and keeping it as time move on. So far knock on wood we have had no clams in 25 years. :)
Pappy
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we have had no clams in 25 years. :)
Pappy
After his 1st "stroll" up the hill, one of my camping partners was seriously considering submitin' a claim!
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we have had no clams in 25 years. :)
Pappy
After his 1st "stroll" up the hill, one of my camping partners was seriously considering submitin' a claim!
I think I was strolling with him, Mike.
Patrick
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. So far knock on wood we have had no clams in 25 years. :)
Pappy
What? Not even with all the flooding? I'da thought you could have a clam bake if you had cast iron boat races in the creek! I kinda like clams. Oyster, too. But only raw, once you cook oysters I don't like 'em.
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;) :) :) I was in a hurry JW [Claims] :) Got a lot of week points but spelling is one of the biggest. ;)
Pappy
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Well Pappy, seeing as how that's the worst of your faults, you don't have so much to worry about!
Was talking with the Tuesday nite woodscraping crew about this new shoot in Oklahoma and there was some interest.
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So as a non profit, we want to upgrade things on property such as power to the bow shop, water for camp etc.... but such things are going to add value to the land. How are such things handled? What can we invest non profit money into and not?
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So as a non profit, we want to upgrade things on property such as power to the bow shop, water for camp etc.... but such things are going to add value to the land. How are such things handled? What can we invest non profit money into and not?
You could lease a portion of the land to the non-profit for 99 years at a dollar a year. The lease agreement could state in the case of the non-profit disincorporating or failing to pay the yearly lease, the lease is void and improvements revert to the landowner if they are not dismantled or removed within a reasonable amount of time (and you WILL specify what a reasonable amount of time).
Gosh, how do I know about a lease arrangement like this? (Cuz I just signed one!)
You can keep all the improvements to the smallest possible piece of acreage to minimize the tax burden to the landowner, but they are improvements nonetheless. This will also, in all likelihood change the tax base of the land as well. Our leased 20+ acres are now no longer taxed as ag, but now as industrial/business. We went from the lowest possible tax base to the highest possible. Again, by containing it on the smallest possible envelope of land, you minimize the negative effects for the landowner. You can go to the county tax assessor for help with this. You may also end up having to get a surveyor in to mark boundaries for legal descriptions.
Yeah, it adds complications, but they are not impossible to achieve.
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I didn't lease the land to TwinOaks and yes my taxes went up a bit but have had no issues for 20+ years with the state or IRS. :o I was told that as long as all the monies were going back into the Club we were good. Guess we will see. ;)
Pappy
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JW, of course you were right, the school I am now attending has exactly the incubator program you mentioned and they are helping me out. I plan on leasing the land from my buddy rather than not to be sure he is protected. I also wanted to bring this thread back up so that those who replied with interest would see and know this is still a thing and going to happen.
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Glad to see it all coming together for you, lots of work ant it. ;) :) Labor of love I call it. :)
Pappy
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Here is a link to an update on this.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=55670.msg795679#msg795679
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Here is a link to an update on this.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=55670.msg795679#msg795679
Didn't learn your lesson the first time and you are gonna do it again? >:D
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I am. But with lessons learned.
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;D
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Sleek, not sure if you opened my post, Memorial Archery shoot for my dad or not but it shows you some of the targets that I use for my shoot. We had around 40 archers this year.