Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Tree_Ninja on May 29, 2015, 01:23:55 pm

Title: Fast flight fears
Post by: Tree_Ninja on May 29, 2015, 01:23:55 pm
  So I didn't purchase a spool of fast flight last year and opted for B55. The major factor in my decision was all the warnings associated with using fast flight . I still have a bunch left (B55), but I'm not super happy with it and the color is getting boring

Does anyone know the difference between astro-flight and fast flight? I plan on buying a spool of fast flight.

I have a maple bow that I want to string up with fast flight. It has no string overlay's(now anyway).  Do I need to put some on?

 What (in your opinion) are the reasons someone would /should hesitate on using fast flight? (if any)

 Thanks.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: dbb on May 29, 2015, 02:59:47 pm
fastflight,astro or d97 whatever the name its basicly the same for all purposes on a stickbow, strong lightweight and lowstretch.
All good things in my book,if you worry about it cutting in to your nocks,just pad the loops with some b55 and you are set.
and imo there is no reason not to use ff
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on May 29, 2015, 03:00:12 pm
Use any of it you can find on sale, its all the same for the most part. If you don't have overlays you can make a 12 strand string and be fine with maple, or make a 6 or 8 strand string and pad the loops with that junk B50 you have.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Tree_Ninja on May 29, 2015, 03:25:27 pm
Ok astro is on sale, so I'll buy that instead.

Quote
make a 6 or 8 strand string and pad the loops with that junk B50 you have.

  I have some decent serving thread, the color combo  of my useless B55 wouldn't jive with the bow. I usually serve my loops anyhow.

 I wish a certain online archery store didn't put the dire warnings in. I wouldn't have wasted my time or money on such a frusterating product. The stretch on B55 is brutal.

Thanks for the assurance.

Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bow101 on May 29, 2015, 03:56:06 pm
I heard B50 is better than B55
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Green on May 29, 2015, 05:48:12 pm
Pearly....just to confirm for us noobs.  Pad the loops say, 14 strands of D10 padded to 20 and we're good without overlays of any sort on an Osage selfie?  I've got about 500 shots through my first one and have used a B55 string to this point.  I hate this crap and haven't used it on any bow in eons.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: nakedfeet on May 29, 2015, 05:56:00 pm
I've used self nocks on every bow I've made except one. I've also made almost every one of my strings from ten or twelve strands of Force (Dynaflight) 10, and I've had no problems with nocks. It's about the thinnest I'd feel comfortable going for loops though. But 20 strands in the loops is not necessary.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Green on May 29, 2015, 06:04:10 pm
Thanks NF......off to the string board then.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: sleek on May 29, 2015, 06:31:02 pm
Been using fast flight for 5 years. Never padded a nock never served a loop. Nevever had a problem even on white woods.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Bullitt on May 30, 2015, 10:20:37 am
Wow, why all this dacron/ poly bashing? ;D
I love H.P. string materials, but where would I be or archery history be without it?


There are differences in the hp material, such as the percentage of the blends of vectran, dyneema
etc. Also diameters of the strand can very.

Astroflight is a good blend, and one I have made from and shot on my selfbows.o
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: mikekeswick on May 30, 2015, 11:30:30 am
They are pretty much all made of dyneema. The rest is just marketing.
No problems using it as everyone has said. It's probably good insurance to pad out the loops/ends, I personally make sure if got a total strand count of 12 minimum. However with well designed nocks it likely won't be problem if you don't.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: medicinewheel on May 31, 2015, 04:30:50 am

I've used nothing else but FF since I first time tried and never had a problem. I always use overlays, but I've seen many Osage bows without and no problem. Overlays for sure wouldn't hurt on a maple bow.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bubby on May 31, 2015, 11:50:37 pm
I've been using ff since pearlie talked me into it, i go ten strands of ff and two eight inch pcs of b-50 in each bundle both ends and double serve it, no problems with self nocks and no padding the loops on horn tips and i love it thanks pearlie  ;)
And for what it's worth b-55 is way better than b-50
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Pappy on June 03, 2015, 10:52:19 am
We all use D97 at TwinOaks, never had a problem that was string related. Love the stuff. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bow101 on June 03, 2015, 11:51:21 am
  So I didn't purchase a spool of fast flight last year and opted for B55. The major factor in my decision was all the warnings associated with using fast flight . I still have a bunch left (B55), but I'm not super happy with it and the color is getting boring

Does anyone know the difference between astro-flight and fast flight? I plan on buying a spool of fast flight.

I have a maple bow that I want to string up with fast flight. It has no string overlay's(now anyway).  Do I need to put some on?

 What (in your opinion) are the reasons someone would /should hesitate on using fast flight? (if any)

 Thanks.

You are making self bows, buy B50...
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 03, 2015, 02:42:12 pm
Why is that?
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 03, 2015, 02:48:23 pm
Why is that?

+1
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bubby on June 03, 2015, 03:09:24 pm
Once again i use ff on self bows and bows with overlays if you reread the post you won't find many that don't use ff
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: wizardgoat on June 03, 2015, 06:17:00 pm
This has come up so many times, just do a quick search.  People that build a lot of bows will eventually ditch B50 and go to a low stretch string. Because B50 is crap. My sinew strings have less stretch than a B50 string
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Pappy on June 04, 2015, 06:59:06 am
There is no problem with FF string period, some don't want to use it because they say it's not traditional, well unless you are using fiber or sinew it's all man made so why not use the best. IMO. I used B50 for years and I had no problem with it but ff works much better for me. All you have to do is try it, some really hard headed folks may say they don't see the difference /advantage/or need, I understand the need part to each their own but don't tell me it ant Traditional/primitive or old school enough. Lots of thing we are doing now with self bows aren't old school. Grips and tip are prime examples.  ;) :) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Green on June 04, 2015, 08:30:42 am
Based on Pearl Drums recommendation, I built a 14 strand D10 string, and padded the loops to 18.  Maybe unnecessary, but as it's my first Osage self bow, and first time using FF on such, I erred on the side of caution.  14 strands of D10 served with .024 62xs just gives me good nock fit for 5/16" Bohning nocks on a tapered shaft.

At this point, I have approx. 300 shots with this string and after examining the nocks with magnifiers, I can honestly say....not a single issue, well except for the increased performance, decreased noise, vibration, and hand shock!  Use with confidence as those with waaaaayyy more experience have said above.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: nakedfeet on June 04, 2015, 12:16:32 pm
There is no problem with FF string period, some don't want to use it because they say it's not traditional, well unless you are using fiber or sinew it's all man made so why not use the best. IMO.

This really encompasses my feelings on the matter.

Synthetic strings aren't "traditional" by any standard that makes sense to me. So if you're going to go modern, use the modern string that offers you the most.

Until I start making high quality animal or plant fiber strings, I'll keep using some kind of HMPE string material.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bubby on June 04, 2015, 12:23:04 pm
Synthetic strings are traditional, they are not primitive
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: rps3 on June 04, 2015, 01:33:08 pm
I tried using up my b50 on bows I was just giving away after switching to fastflight, but I cant even do that. In my mind at least ,ff makes a trmendous difference in performance, and I have not had any problems yet.  All my bows get overlays. 10 strand, no extra padding. 50-60# bows.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Chadwick on June 04, 2015, 02:51:45 pm
I'm NOT against ff. The problem is, I have 7 different spools/colors of b50. Does anyone have a cheap source for me to switch over and not have wallet agony over leaving behind the stuff I've bought (which seems to work fine)?
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 04, 2015, 03:52:11 pm
I'm NOT against ff. The problem is, I have 7 different spools/colors of b50. Does anyone have a cheap source for me to switch over and not have wallet agony over leaving behind the stuff I've bought (which seems to work fine)?


That's a tough one. Buying a spool of D97 and making that first FF string converted me for life but if I'd already downed a hundred bucks on something else I don't know what I'd do.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bubby on June 04, 2015, 03:55:11 pm
Sell the b-50 on ebay ;D
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: DC on June 04, 2015, 03:56:10 pm
Make a whole shipload of strings and sell them on e-bay ;)
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: DC on June 04, 2015, 03:56:45 pm
Great minds
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 04, 2015, 03:58:35 pm
7 spools of rubber band is worth about $3. Just pitch it and start anew :)

Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: paulsemp on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 pm
or you could invite pearly boy over and stick all of it in his work bag and send him home with it. that's what I did
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 04, 2015, 04:22:59 pm
Somebody left Marshall with it, not sure who grabbed it?
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: JacksonCash on June 04, 2015, 04:23:25 pm
Use the B50 to make friendship bracelets for everyone on PA.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 04, 2015, 04:24:33 pm
Good thinking J dog.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bubby on June 04, 2015, 04:37:43 pm
Did pauly stuff a bunch of crap in your big old man purse pearlie
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Pappy on June 04, 2015, 04:38:43 pm
Use it up , it makes fine strings. Just don't twist it up like a coil, no more than 3 twist per inch and it is fine. The problem with most is they have way to much twist,people make them to long and then twist to fit. Then you have a coil spring but if you only put a few you will be surprised at the difference. Pappy
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 04, 2015, 04:44:53 pm
Did pauly stuff a bunch of crap in your big old man purse pearlie

Yup.  A 3/4" copper elbow, baseball size piece of rock, 2 spools of B50, and a couple goose feathers!
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Tree_Ninja on June 04, 2015, 06:29:41 pm
Just ordered some d97.

I think I will attempt to use up my b55. Pappy shed some light on the issue at hand(too many twists).  I will also make some bush strings and put em in my cruiser vest incase I find a nice piece of wood I can turn into a bow during lunch.


Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 05, 2015, 01:10:23 am
You shouldn't twist the bundles so hard that they're super tight as you go. Like Pappy said, the twist from three-per-inch is more than enough to keep the string together and keeps the string from stretching.

The string on the lift, black and white, is a recent string and is made pretty decently in my opinion, about one twist every inch before setting brace properly. The string on the right is pretty old, from before I started making at least one a week. Both need wax ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/GL6IILZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: Pappy on June 05, 2015, 04:38:16 am
I had a string maker from Ohio show and tell me that, he can make a B50 that will perform maybe not quite as good as FF but pretty dang good and settles in fast.Maybe 1 brace adjustment after shooting it a while. I still use D97 now but have no problem with B50 if the string is made right. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bow101 on June 05, 2015, 01:31:18 pm
I use this stuff just to lazy to twist a string and to busy making dust in the shop.  :P  it claims safe work load of  40#. 
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 05, 2015, 01:38:31 pm
Uh... Is that a funny? 'Cause I mean, it'd probably stay in one piece long enough but... It takes less than twenty minutes to make a string... And that stuff is made to stretch... ???
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bow101 on June 05, 2015, 01:55:03 pm
Uh... Is that a funny? 'Cause I mean, it'd probably stay in one piece long enough but... It takes less than twenty minutes to make a string... And that stuff is made to stretch... ???

I pre-stretch it and some of my bows have over 200 shots and they are hung on the rack by the string, so far no problems in the last 3 years.   "twenty minutes to make a string"    :laugh:  takes me 2 minutes.  Try it you will like it, no hand shock and really no stretch when pulling.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 05, 2015, 02:12:45 pm
Maybe it was the string I was buying. I've never been able to pre-stretch enough to keep a fifty pound bow from dropping brace height every five shots. Your string looks considerably thicker so that might do it.

All that aside though I'm not switching from Flemish twist :P I hardly make any bows for myself anyway, the ones I ship need their nice Flemish twists.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bow101 on June 05, 2015, 02:59:25 pm
huisme I'd like to see some of your BL bows.  Hopefully in the future I'll make one, heck the BL trees are right in front of me.     8)
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 05, 2015, 07:37:21 pm
huisme I'd like to see some of your BL bows.  Hopefully in the future I'll make one, heck the BL trees are right in front of me.     8)

I only photograph them every so often or when requested, so here's all of those in albums: http://huisme.imgur.com/ (http://huisme.imgur.com/)

You'll notice they're mostly mollegabets ;)
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: bow101 on June 06, 2015, 01:49:05 am
Some cool bows huisme you can sure make them short.   BL resembles Osage  like Grain texture and color.  I dont think its as dense.
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: huisme on June 06, 2015, 02:18:00 am
Some cool bows huisme you can sure make them short.   BL resembles Osage  like Grain texture and color.  I dont think its as dense.

I like short. It pushes my ability to really get the most out of a stick.

Far less dense and its main drawback is that it's easier to break than osage, from flaws to impacts. Besides that it's stiffer, lighter, and easier to find in Washington ::)

My current impression (get your salt ready) is that optimized locust will outcast optimized osage by a few fps but the locust's chances of being damaged are greater and it's easier to under-build a locust bow so optimization (do it and call it how you will) is more risky. If I had one chance to make a bow from one perfect stave to use for the rest of my life I'd go for osage 'cause I'm no dummy. If I had five I'd go for locust ;)
Title: Re: Fast flight fears
Post by: crooketarrow on June 06, 2015, 11:18:11 am
  I've used fast flight on my bows for 17,18 years. I still bow hunt with a fast flight when I have them.