Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: toomanyknots on June 17, 2015, 02:45:05 pm
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Scenario: For unexplained reasons, you find yourself deep in a north american temperate forest, without any hope of contacting the outside world or civilization. Despite the fact there may or may not be better things you could be burning precious calories doing to help the likelyhood of survival, your obsession with primitive archery compels you to do one thing: Craft a usable survival bow. Now, how fast can you make a serviceable bow, and with how many materials? How effective will this bow be at taking game, and how many shots will this bow last? This is always a question in the back of my mind that creeps up now and then. I have thought about it, and I hate watching videos on youtube of people making green bows. As a bowyer, a green bow just seems unnatural to me. I'm sure everyone on here, if walking down the street, came upon a fellow trying to make a bow out of a green piece of wood, it would take the power of 1000 suns to keep yourselves from correcting them and explaining to them their error. So why should it be any difference in a survival situation? I mean for one, if you KNOW there is a good chance you are going to be sleeping in the wilderness already, you are gonna need a shelter and a fire fast. So why not use the fire to dry out a carved out stave while you at it? Or maybe there is a good method for finding dry standing wood, idk. Maybe even just heat treating the belly of a fresh green stave? In a design that would not be too messed up when the stave warped from the shock of so much moisture loss? (Like a circular cross section).
EDIT: I mean, in retrospect, if you don't have a knife, your gonna need to nap something to carve, so you might as well just make a spear and go fishing or something, etc. But still, I'm really wondering if there is any way to season a piece of wood fast enough to make a serviceable bow that will last verses making a green soggy sluggish 3 shot bow.
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First thing I'd make is an atlatl and some darts, then if you can find something for bow wood and reduce to bow dimentions and keep it close to the fire after a week reduce it more and let dry some more till you got a serviceable bow, but what do ya got for a string?
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I think I would rough out 2 or 3 bows and start hunting with a green bow while waiting for the others to dry some. Eventually I would be fat and sassy and have a couple of dry(ish) staves. Around here the humidity never gets low enough.
Actually around here I would just go to the beach, dig some clams and lay back and relax, at least in the summer. In the winter the drizzle would kill me in a few days. :(
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Bowstring: if you aint bald you grow them on your head 😵
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NNazMRnVF4Y
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I think if I had to make a bow, I'd do as DC recommends above. But if I had a choice, I'd probably concentrate on trapping small game and finding some cattail or other starchy plant.
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I made my "one hour bow" using just an axe.
I'll let you figure out how long it took >:D
I made it to fit a string that I already had.
Del
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The bow isn't the problem, its the bullets and casings that stop the train. A bow would be thee worse survival tool to spend a minute on. Not too mention the work that goes into the bow hunting itself. I like the simple snare or dead fall idea, it works while you preserve calories. And it is more effective than a bow.
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There are plenty of dead limbs up in the trees that can be used for bows. But all wood has too much moisture to be used for a bow if it's been out in the elements. It all needs some drying time... but dry heat works much faster on dead standing wood than green wood. I would use dead standing wood that I tested (bent) before stringing it.
If you are near a lake or pond, it doesn't take much to make a bow and arrows to shoot fish with. That's what I did on the weekends when I camped out for year. Hunting mammals is entirely different ball game... and I would make traps for those, like already suggested.
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I have been planning on trying to make a "father son" bow, which is just a penobscot style bow made with green saplings, just to see if it was a feasible "survival" tool. It looks sluggish to me, but I want to try one out before I cast to much judgement on it. The arrows would be harder of course, and I would probably be relegated to very close shots at small game and fish as jackcrafty suggested. But, if I had to, in a pinch I'd try it for sure. I'm going to try it with privet, cause I have a metric crapton of privet around me.
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Always wanted to make a serviceable weekend bow, from one branch/sapling string n all.
Decent cordage over here (UK) tends to be either from lime (basswood) willow or elm.
My plan is to split n cook a wych elm sapling over a day or two and use th einner bark for the string, which is fantastic cordage.
Have a weekend in the woods coming up and will report back. Life and work has kept me away from a sharp edge and wood for too long.
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I might not go right for wood if other material was available, say from a crash site or broken atv/snow machine. You could always use your boot strings on the bow. It would sure take less time than twisting cordage by hand.
But as others have already said, if you trying to get food as fast as possible, trapping is definitely the way to go. You can cover way more area and set countless traps. It would be the quickest and most efficient way to get fresh meat. Unless of course there were casualties from whatever catastrophe got you stranded, but then we're talking cannibalism and that's a different topic entirely.
Wait, I forgot about an overlooked plentiful food source, insects. Probably less of a moral dilemma for most of us than eating dead party members.
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Always wanted to make a serviceable weekend bow, from one branch/sapling string n all.
Decent cordage over here (UK) tends to be either from lime (basswood) willow or elm.
My plan is to split n cook a wych elm sapling over a day or two and use th einner bark for the string, which is fantastic cordage.
Have a weekend in the woods coming up and will report back. Life and work has kept me away from a sharp edge and wood for too long.
Yeah, that's on my "to do list" too.
The string is the hard bit IMO.
Del
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I agree that a bow is not the best choice for a short time scenario. The longer the situation stretches out the more practical it becomes. However, in the spirit of the questions asked, if there are ERC trees about, the lower dead limbs are pretty snappy even though they're not totally dry. I've made several quicky bows from such limbs that perform quite well. As far as cordage goes, if you've got ERC you've more than likely got several weeds to choose from to make a string. Those dead ERC limbs were my first real step towards hunting weight bows. Before them, I was trying to make bows from green willow poles and bankline string. I bet a lot of you know exactly how well those perform. Lol! Josh
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Here in Alaska not many good bow woods so an Atllatl and dart would be your best bet. I have killed a moose with an atlatl and salmon fishing with atlatl is easier than bow fishing, but if you really needed a bow then I would use a green spruce sapling. It' not bad till it dries too much, about 5 days, then becomes brittle and breaks. The bow string is the hard part. Spruce roots are strong enough but can't get them in the winter because of frozen ground. We have a skinny type of nettle but hard to process enough fiber for string. We have
small red squirrels that a raw hide string might be made from but the reality is a hunting weight bow and string could take weeks or months to make. cheers fiddler49
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A good bow would be far down on my list of priorities in a survival situation. Even a long-term survival situation.
If I made it past a couple weeks I'd probably start planning to build one, but if I'm watered and fed and staying warm, why do I need to rush into making a poor weapon that will break down fast? Do it right.
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The string could be made from a piece of para cord *(if you carry such things) or shoe laces. ..
Pretty much any sapling can be bent and strung into a light weight bow capable of sticking a make shift arrow into something. ..
The key word in this is survival. .. i could care less if it lasted 3 days or 5....
I just don't want it to be the last one i ever make. ..
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I watched Stem Wilcock build a quickie survival bow(about 45#) at the Classic a few years ago in about 15 minutes from a green sapling. It shot pretty well.
Like others have said a bow isn't necessarily your best choice in a survival situation. Snares, rabbit stick, deadfalls, etc. would be more successful.
I would probably make a bow in the slow time in the evenings around the campfire but it would not be a quickie. I'd do like Gun Doc suggested and collect a dead ERC branch if available or other appropriate sapling. Even a green one can be made somewhat durable with grease and fire over a few weeks time, I think.
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In 87 I took 3 different, 5 day survile coarse. We were allowed to knap a flint scrapper, you got a parter if you wished. My last trip, We built a bow out of a dead hickory sappling. Finished the bow with a arrow (fire dryed dog wood) knapped head all tied on with a dead cow sinew. I found the third day. All in the 5 days, rained 2.
I cheated some what, It was my third time that year I took this class. So a bow was'nt sp bad.
I'd stave if I releided on a bow. I'd trap, long before I'd depend on a bow. I snared a hole lot as a kid growing up into my 20's when I only fox (snared) traped.
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Well I made a perfectly good hazel bow from a dripping green stave in about a day by drying it over a fire as I went.
As mentioned the string is the hard part but with knowledge of your local plants (or small animals) and a whole lot of PRACTISE it's doable.
How many people out there have tried to live off trapping? You have to be very knowledgeable on this too to have any chance of eating regularly. Even with modern snares etc it still isn't the 'easy way'. I've been taught by an old guy who really is expert when it comes to trapping - talk about having your eyes opened!
Personally I think you would have to be a total badass to actually survive, by yourself, in the wilds for a long time - look at the state Ishi was in. Perfect health and a very full head would be prerequisites.
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Yee Haa I am hijacking this thread!! Sorry in advance. Toomanyknots DID NOT ASK IF YOU WOULD MAKE A BOW OR TRAP! He asked how long you think it would take to make a serviceable bow. In my opinion this is dependent on whether I have some tools or not. If I had to use stones as tools it would take me a long time. If I had a small knife and ideally an axe or maybe just some hacking type of knife it would simplify things thus speeding it up considerably.
My scenario: the shit has hit the fan, and it is a survival situation, I have a knife and a small axe. I live in the countryside in Germany, it is let us say spring or summer, living outside or in a camp is doable. I would look for elm, ash or hazel saplings. Black locust does grow here but I think that would be making things harder for me than necessary and I do have elm here so I would go for that. I would cut several as to give myself some choice and expecting breakage. I would also cut hazel shoots for arrows - as many as possible. With an axe and knife I think it is possible to cut and roughly shape let us say four bows. No chasing rings, bark stripped off back of bow finished! In a day. Sounds like I am wasting time but no. They should be dried as much as possible so over a fire along with the arrow shoots whilst doing this you should start making birch resin, you will need this to help sticking any sharp bits of stone on the end of the arrows - (I can't nap)
Mike says cordage is the problem - yes and no. If you have clothes you have cordage, if you find someone dead then their jeans will be cordage. You have to be a pragmatic badass to survive. Elm and nettles and ash bark will make cordage I have not tried this but do think I could manage it would put an extra day on the process though. So, I think I could make a bow and arrows in about 2 days. I would having achieved this and hopefully having a full belly have some time to carry on making a better stronger bow and more arrows. In a survival situation with possibly hostile people (hope to god no one has a gun) having a bow and arrow could be the only thing stopping someone using your clothes for a bow string.
2 -3 days wouldn't be my best bow, or maybe it would LOL
Hope I haven't upset anyone the Prignitzer bowman
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With my axe and my knife? Probably 3 days. That leaves room for some fire drying and completely botching my first attempt. I'd probably do like what others have said and start 3 or 4 knowing that only 1 will probably be passable.
If I was without my axe and knife and had to use sticks and stones or improvised tools then I'd extend that out to a week or so. After all you'd probably be reduced to working mostly in the evenings after your other needs have been met, and you'd likely be tired from your ordeal.
A bow would be rather low on my priority list for short term survival. But if the situation turned long term then I suppose its usefulness would increase. But if we were looking at a long term survival situation then I'd probably take the time and make a real bow and not a green survival one. I'd be much more likely to build an atlatl I think.
It all depends quite heavily on your specific situation. If I find myself in an area where I am consistently coming across wild game, or if some other opportunity arose where a bow would be useful then I'd probably make one. If not I don't think I'd waste the energy. Survival is often a calorie game and I think that with my limited accuracy and hunting skills a bow could take a long time to see a return on my calorie investment. Your time would probably be better spent on other things, but under the right circumstances it could certainly improve your situation.
Really, when you think about it, a bow isn't a great survival tool. When you look at the energy and skill necessary to make, use, and maintain one it just doesn't fit. Its really more of a primitive living tool than a survival tool. Its only once you've got survival taken care of that you start to think about such advanced tools.
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Mike says cordage is the problem - yes and no. If you have clothes you have cordage, if you find someone dead then their jeans will be cordage. You have to be a pragmatic badass to survive. Elm and nettles and ash bark will make cordage I have not tried this but do think I could manage it would put an extra day on the process though. So, I think I could make a bow and arrows in about 2 days. I would having achieved this and hopefully having a full belly have some time to carry on making a better stronger bow and more arrows. In a survival situation with possibly hostile people (hope to god no one has a gun) having a bow and arrow could be the only thing stopping someone using your clothes for a bow string.
We aren't just talking cordage though....we are talking bow strings! A good bow string is hard to make from natural material collected from round here (northern England) without a detailed knowledge of string making principles and then the botanical knowledge to process your fibers well. There are nettles a plenty and simple cordage is no problem but to make a bow string that doesn't weigh a ton and has decent strength is by no means easy ;) Retting nettles efficiently is something i've really struggled with...even with a full range of tools!
I stand by my earlier statement...bow strings are the problem. Bow = Easy, Arrows = Trickier, String = Master level cordage maker!!
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Mike is on the money, denim would not make a good or even passable bowstring, best bet is to always have paracord shoestrings as it will make a " passable " bowstring, kind of like bad b-50, or kill a squirrel and make a rawhide string
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Retting nettles efficiently is something i've really struggled with...even with a full range of tools!
Me too. I've tried a couple times to ret them myself, and never had much success. They always seem to ret themselves pretty good though, if you collect your fibers right after the winter, on a sunny dry day.
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depending on where you are, there are other cordage options to. Around my neck of the woods we have a lot of yucca, and it makes a good bowstring without to much fuss. Agave would probably make a good string to out west, and Dogbane might make a passable string, but I have never used dogbane. However, I know yucca works for sure, and there isn't much processing involved, scrape off the outer stuff and twist it up. if you had time to dry it it would be better, it drys quick to once cleaned off.
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Note to self. .. make another para cord survival bracelet. ..
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I have made bow string out of squirrel before. Two skins hold 30# bow. If I find a dead dude not too rotten.... no other possibilities, he has sinew. He aint using it no more. Use sinew for string and bones for arrow heads. After the world calms down, im gonna need therapy after that.... maybe even now because I know id do it if I had too.
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tool kit number one.... knife, hatchet and snare wire. If dumped out in it, I would cut staves within the first couple of days to start the drying. I would work with green stuff till the other was ready. Snares for small critters to make a rawhide string to begin with. If you take something bigger later you can use sinew. Three days to have something capable of taking game if my snares work like I want them to.
tool kit number two.... how little material? a knife and a roll of B-50. How long? a few hours.
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Well my personal best was 4 hours between cuting (dead branch) and shooting, but maybe another hour to finish, and that's with a hatchet knife and file for the knocks. I'm sure in a survival situation I could speed that up with the same tools or at least keep it the same with only a hatchet.
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Depending where I was. Where my cabin is there is pine and willow. Atlatl would be the choice. Around home there are more options. Maybe a week if that was the route I was going. If I were closer to home though, I would more than likely eat insects. I have some weight to spare. Anyone down for a challenge? Make a bow with only scavenged or salvaged materials? I'm in if someone else is.
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Hello pvc....
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Hello pvc....
Urban survival that is the ticket
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Hello pvc....
PVC?
Sorry, I just puked... :-[
Del
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I agree with what has allready been posted about using green wood saplings and boot laces for a bow, but I think the hardest part will be finding material to make usable arrows out of. It can be done but I think I would be concentrating on trapping and foraging to build up some stores of food before investing my time in building survival archery tackle. IMO
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I live in a good spot for this sort of experiment - fat fox squirrels that you can kill with a stick they are so slow, river cane in most of the creek bottoms for arrows, and dead standing osage for the bow. Life is good. I have made a couple of bows with just a minimum of tools. You can make one that works. I completely agree with everyone's comments on priorities and survival though. Bow making would be on down the line. Just trying to stick to the original post.
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I have to chime in on this one, because I speak from experience.
I spent a week at the lake, and not wanting to run to the grocery store for meat. ;)
I found honey locust with some sweet looking saplings, less than 2'' across.
I Wacked several off and and began profiling with Obsidian.
after a few hours and some heat treating over a camp fire, I had a serviceable 45# @ roughly 28" draw.
This is a plausible and very effective option, even in a short term scenario.
You don't need a work of art to procure food, you just need to maintain three goals.
Form, Fit and Function
You would be surprised how many critters come into range while you are hacking out a quick bow around a camp fire.
But keep in mind, I did have bow string already made up. I always carry several Pre made Bow strings in my Bug Out Bag.
If you have not done this, then I urge you to Test your self, before the situation presents it's self.
Just my two cents
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Hello pvc....
PVC?
Sorry, I just puked... :-[
Del
Easy there buddy you might hack up a hair ball lol....
Honestly though, for time and efficiency, pvc can not be beat. In a SHTF scenario, pvc will be available world wide in mass amounts. Not to mention water proof, unbreakable, easy of making.... pvc is king here.
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BowJunkie,
I agree. I also carry at least half a dozen pre-made bowstrings, different lengths, of B50 and 8190 in every bug out bag and hunting bag. There are several in the storage compartment of my truck incase I get stranded. I also keep a small carry box handy with a couple spools of different types of string and serving materials that I could snatch up in a hurry with the rest of my gear if I was at the house when the zombies come. They're so simple and cheap to make. I don't see any excuse why anyone concerned with a SHTF scenario wouldn't just whip up one or two dozen strings and distribute them amongst your other survival gear.
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Sleek, pvc will shatter in cold weather! It can't be used on compressor lines for that reason.
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Well, the more you know.... :-[
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With everything else you have to do in the situation it will take you about 2 -3 weeks @ the few minutes a day that you could possibly have to work on it and that depends heavily on how good you are at making or finding shelter and fire
That is why you do the green bow first to get you by till you can get the bow you ask about done
please be sure to do a good spear before you even do the green bow cause all the snares deadfalls and other goodies will do absolutely nothing toward keeping you from being eaten !
have fun and keep your topnot on !
forgot the part about tools everything you need is out there but you best start practicing now !
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Toomanyknots: I have thought about this question, & like many others before me, I too would 1st set traps, however that wasn't the question. So when I was out two nights ago, I cut a 61" long piece of hazelnut, 1 1/4" at top 1 1/2" at bottom. I peeled it as soon as I cut it, ran out of time to shape it. Put it in my hot car for my work shift the next day. I got home and started on it about 4pm by 4;30 I was back in the house with a usable bow. Not a heavy bow but would make me feel better to have it for defense anyway. I cut it down with a small 6" blade folding hand saw, I used my hatchet to ruff it out and then grabbed my block plane (use what you got) to take it down and then finish the tiller, the saw again for knocks. I started to burnish it by my shoulder said enough, I'll finish that tonight. I have put it back in my car for one more day. As for the string and arrows, I had them, it wasn't part of the question to make them. I have not heated this because we have a fire ban so fire is out and it's too hot to use the wife's stove or heat gun right now. I'll shoot this to see how much abuse it can take. Then I may hand it over for my grandson to play with. Thank you for the question. Ed