Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: k-hat on July 15, 2015, 07:25:20 pm

Title: tree ID please
Post by: k-hat on July 15, 2015, 07:25:20 pm
Friend cut this very heavy tree (heavier than bodark he 's pretty sure), i didnt see it in person so we r trying to figure it out.  Only thing i can think of heavier than bodark in this area (Texas) is maybe HHB.

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1913.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1913.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8563.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8563.jpg.html)

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: Joec123able on July 15, 2015, 08:15:43 pm
I doubt it's heavier than Osage, Osage is the hardest and heaviest native wood to North America so the only way it'd be heavier is if it were a foreign wood which it didn't look like.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: Danzn Bar on July 15, 2015, 08:18:57 pm
Looks like HHB to me....................
DBar
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PatM on July 15, 2015, 08:31:32 pm
HHB. Wouldn't be surprised if the green weight is heavier than Osage.  Trees vary in the amount of water they have in them while live.
 Texas also has three potential varieties of HHB depending on location.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: DavidV on July 15, 2015, 10:58:20 pm
I doubt it's heavier than Osage, Osage is the hardest and heaviest native wood to North America so the only way it'd be heavier is if it were a foreign wood which it didn't look like.

Live Oak has osage beat on both accounts but either way, a dense HHB, Rock elm, Persimmon or whatever may actually be heavier than a less dense osage. Wood is variable like that.

There are a few types of hornbeam with the major two being Carpinus caroliniana and Ostrya virginiana. The one pictured would be Carpinus caroliniana which is in the beech family
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: vtbow on July 15, 2015, 11:10:28 pm

There are a few types of hornbeam with the major two being Carpinus caroliniana and Ostrya virginiana. The one pictured would be Carpinus caroliniana which is in the beech family

Ahhh, the leaves even look a little beech-like. And I always think HHB has bark that's a little elm-like. No mistaking the density of the wood, though.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PatM on July 15, 2015, 11:13:11 pm

There are a few types of hornbeam with the major two being Carpinus caroliniana and Ostrya virginiana. The one pictured would be Carpinus caroliniana which is in the beech family
[/quote]
 
   Carpinus may be known as Blue Beech because of its superficial resemblance to a Beech but it is in no way related. This tree pictured is Ostrya (Hophornbeam rather than just Hornbeam) and possibly either Knowlton or Chisos Hophornbeam.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: k-hat on July 15, 2015, 11:18:27 pm
Nice to know my suspicions were correct!  Thanks  guys.  Now I'm wishing I had gotten my hands on some of it for bow wood. :-\
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: Joec123able on July 15, 2015, 11:44:28 pm
I doubt it's heavier than Osage, Osage is the hardest and heaviest native wood to North America so the only way it'd be heavier is if it were a foreign wood which it didn't look like.

Live Oak has osage beat on both accounts but either way, a dense HHB, Rock elm, Persimmon or whatever may actually be heavier than a less dense osage. Wood is variable like that.

There are a few types of hornbeam with the major two being Carpinus caroliniana and Ostrya virginiana. The one pictured would be Carpinus caroliniana which is in the beech family

Forgot about live oak, but if you research it Osage has a higher janka hardness and the SG on live oak varies all the way from (.80 to 1.00) compared to Osage at average of (.86) .their average weights are also pretty close
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: DavidV on July 16, 2015, 01:49:06 am

There are a few types of hornbeam with the major two being Carpinus caroliniana and Ostrya virginiana. The one pictured would be Carpinus caroliniana which is in the beech family
 
   Carpinus may be known as Blue Beech because of its superficial resemblance to a Beech but it is in no way related. This tree pictured is Ostrya (Hophornbeam rather than just Hornbeam) and possibly either Knowlton or Chisos Hophornbeam.
[/quote]

Yep, mind must have slipped. It's in the birch family but like you said, the common name is blue beech.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 16, 2015, 07:04:46 am
That's not like any beech or HHB we have. Not even close.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PatM on July 16, 2015, 08:48:15 am
Is your HHB very consistent in its bark structure? Ours is very variable.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 16, 2015, 08:52:12 am
Very consistent. And, I've yet to find any type of beech or HHB that is that color and nearly all heartwood. Not saying it isn't HHB, just saying it has none of the characteristics ours does.

My guess is its an elm of sorts. The heartwood color and bark pattern matches elms up here. But again, its nearly all heartwood in that pic. Those micro leaves seems "off" to me as well. That's a decent sized stump for such tiny leaves.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PatM on July 16, 2015, 09:37:42 am
Good points. I'd like to see a cross section of the trunk a bit higher up. The Knowlton or Western HHB does have tiny leaves but it tends to be a small shrubby tree which this doesn't appear to be.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: blackhawk on July 16, 2015, 11:00:16 am
It has the elm "buttresses" at the base there,and it looks like all whitewood to me...wish I could see if its ring porous or not...if its ring porous it def ain't hhb..also the leaves are so small for an elm,n more like hhb. I can't say for sure 100% what it is.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: okie64 on July 16, 2015, 12:43:30 pm
Going off bark and leaves my guess would be winged elm. It is extremely heavy when it is fresh cut.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: k-hat on July 16, 2015, 01:12:34 pm
Glad I could generate such discussion lol.  I wish I was there when they cut it.  Personally, I've never cut any elm down here that I would describe as that heavy.  I'll just call it MongolianTulip and be done with it lol.  I'll see if I can get a pic of the cross-section.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PatM on July 16, 2015, 01:38:31 pm
Going off bark and leaves my guess would be winged elm. It is extremely heavy when it is fresh cut.
Doesn't winged Elm actually have corky wings on the twigs?
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: okie64 on July 16, 2015, 02:06:51 pm
Going off bark and leaves my guess would be winged elm. It is extremely heavy when it is fresh cut.
Doesn't winged Elm actually have corky wings on the twigs?

Some do and some dont, it varies from tree to tree. Usually the corky wings are only on the smaller trees up to 6" diameter or so.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: okie64 on July 16, 2015, 02:15:44 pm
Heres some pics of one I cut a few years ago. Toughest wood I've ever split.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/fc58dc2c.jpg) (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/Jamey_Burkhart/media/fc58dc2c.jpg.html)
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/f03e777b.jpg) (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/Jamey_Burkhart/media/f03e777b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: k-hat on July 16, 2015, 02:18:53 pm
Here is a close-up of a trunk section.  One guy is calling it ash?  At any rate, don't know if this helps:

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG950570.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG950570.jpg.html)
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: wapiti1997 on July 16, 2015, 10:09:21 pm
Where are you located?  I agree that it looks like an elm to me.  Doesn't look like any HHB, Ostrya virginiana that I've ever seen..
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: JohnL on July 19, 2015, 10:42:41 pm
     Looks like it could be a cedar elm (Texas Elm).  The leaf looks just like a standard elm, only much smaller, and the bark description seems to match as well.  Take a look at this link...

http://texastreeid.tamu.edu/content/TreeDetails/?id=127

–John

Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: Dakota Kid on July 19, 2015, 11:04:37 pm
I don't know what burning elm smells like but HHB and HB smell like burnt popcorn to me when the dremel is too fast.

I looks and sounds an awful lot like the HHB we have in this area. Heavy as iron when wet and nearly impossible to split. I just found my first few elm trees this week so I have little actual hands on experience with elm. I'll know how they split soon enough. 
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: Scallorn on July 19, 2015, 11:52:48 pm
I hate to disagree with all of the HHB theories, but that is definitely Elm. I live in NE Texas, and wee have loads of it here. it grows in hardwood forests with hickory like the one in the background of that pic'. I have used it for bows and it is excellent. Very difficult to split tho. Hope this helps.
-Dan
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: Dakota Kid on July 20, 2015, 01:01:58 am
I've heard the wood characteristics were similar between elm and HHB apparently they look a bit alike as well.
Title: Re: tree ID please
Post by: PatM on July 20, 2015, 01:48:27 am
I hate to disagree with all of the HHB theories, but that is definitely Elm. I live in NE Texas, and wee have loads of it here. it grows in hardwood forests with hickory like the one in the background of that pic'. I have used it for bows and it is excellent. Very difficult to split tho. Hope this helps.
-Dan
Looking at the higher up cut I would agree that it looks less like HHB.