Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Predictable on July 20, 2015, 11:06:08 pm
-
i've never done this before, so i have a couple questions. i bought some 3/8" dowels today.
for straightening a dowel that will be used as an arrow, can i use heat (fire), or do i steam bend?
also, should i fire harden the entire dowel? or maybe the tip area?
-
Question 1 = nope, Question 2 = nope, Question 3 = nope 3/8" shafts are monsters, the most common for wood shafts is 11/32". And they have to be spined to your bow within a few pounds. I straighten shafts by eying them down the entire length as I turn them in my hand and bend them.
-
You can put one end on a table or hard surface and roll the shaft till the hump comes up to the top then push down and try again till it gets straight. Some you might have to burnish the high spot against a hard surface. Most dowels are not too good so be pickey when selecting. Kenneth
-
Question 1 = nope, Question 2 = nope, Question 3 = nope 3/8" shafts are monsters, the most common for wood shafts is 11/32". And they have to be spined to your bow within a few pounds. I straighten shafts by eying them down the entire length as I turn them in my hand and bend them.
3/8 of an inch is 0.375 of an inch.
11/32 of an inch is 0.344 of an inch, does this difference really make 3/8" shafts monsters?
-
You can put one end on a table or hard surface and roll the shaft till the hump comes up to the top then push down and try again till it gets straight. Some you might have to burnish the high spot against a hard surface. Most dowels are not too good so be pickey when selecting. Kenneth
thanks, i did look for the straightest ones but of course aren't perfect. when you say you push the hump down to make it straight, do you mean you heat it, then push it?
-
also, would it be wise to fire harden the dowel?
-
Few, if any, dowels require heat to straighten. Just bend/force by hand.
I've never fire-hardened any dowels.
-
Maybe not monsters but they will more than likely be way overspined depending on what type of wood they are. I buy 3/8 poplar and then grind them down from 5/16" at the nock to 3/8" at the point in a jig I made. They usually shoot pretty good outta most of my bows, they are between 45 and 60 pounds.
-
I did this in the beginning too. 3/8 is too much unless you are shooting a heavy bow. If you miss, they break. Bamboo has been tough as nails for me.
-
I start with 3/8th dowels and sand them down till I get the spine I want. I'm shooting for 55-60lb spine arrows. I also use dry heat to help straighten them. I don't think you'd want to fire harden the entire dowel.
-
I find that 5/16" Poplar dowels from Lowes usually have a spine between 39 and 45 pounds. Unless you are shooting a much heavier bow, there is not much need for a 3/8" dowel. Just make sure that the growth ring runs all the way the length of an arrow. The 5/16" dowels are 48" long, sometimes I can find an area in the middle or at one end that has straight grain and then it runs off. the 3/8" dowels are 36" long and don't give you as much room to avoid bad wood grain.
-
You say you "chose the straightest ones"... I really hope you didn't mean that you just grabbed a handful of dowels and chose the straight ones. I use dowels almost exclusively but you must be very selective of the **straightness of the grain** when sighting down the dowels. You want the grain to run as straight as possible with as few run outs as possible for 32-36" of the dowel (if you're buying 48" dowels). In my experience, poplar dowels will break very easily at run outs. It's a shame to put time and effort into an arrow to have it break on the first impact or worse, when loosed from the string!
If I look through a stack of 100...200... 300 dowels I'm very happy to find 5-10 perfect ones that I'd trust without reserve. There are times where I'll look through a hundred dowels and not find a single suitable arrow.
3/8 poplar with good grain usually spines 80-100+ For me but you can sand them like bubbles does (eliminates all the guess work and makes them all matched in spine). I shoot 5/16. If I'm lucky enough to find a small pile of the ones with good grain ill take home 6 or so of the stiffest ones. They spine round 45-50# give or take a few. You'll be able to tell when they're way under spined so eliminate those ones while you're still at the store.. Some 5/16 will flex like a wet noodle. Sort through enough dowels and you'll get a feel for what that 45-50 pounds feels like and your take home success will improve.
I straighten by hand as well.
-
Question 1 = nope, Question 2 = nope, Question 3 = nope 3/8" shafts are monsters, the most common for wood shafts is 11/32". And they have to be spined to your bow within a few pounds. I straighten shafts by eying them down the entire length as I turn them in my hand and bend them.
3/8 of an inch is 0.375 of an inch.
11/32 of an inch is 0.344 of an inch, does this difference really make 3/8" shafts monsters?
Try them and find out for yourself. All my shafts are 11/32" no reason to go bigger or smaller. My supplier makes only 11/32" arrows. :) They have been tired, tested and proven.
-
Good gosh, so many incorrect answers, yes you can use heat to straighten dowels, I did it all the time when I was making dowel arrows. You can use heat on any arrow shaft and it works very well and will stay straighter than hand bending.
As for 3/8" dowels they will usually spine out between 70# and 90# and everything in between.
I barrel tapered a dozen 3/8 poplar dowels, 5/16" nocks and 11/32" point ends then sanded the middles to make a matched set of 55# arrow shafts. Very labor intensive, I wouldn't do it again but I ended up with some really great shooting arrows that weighed over 600gr
-
Good gosh, so many incorrect answers, yes you can use heat to straighten dowels, I did it all the time when I was making dowel arrows. You can use heat on any arrow shaft and it works very well and will stay straighter than hand bending.
As for 3/8" dowels they will usually spine out between 70# and 90# and everything in between.
I barrel tapered a dozen 3/8 poplar dowels, 5/16" nocks and 11/32" point ends then sanded the middles to make a matched set of 55# arrow shafts. Very labor intensive, I wouldn't do it again but I ended up with some really great shooting arrows that weighed over 600gr
I stand to be corrected about heat ??? Thanks Eric
-
I agree with Eric on the original question......you can heat straighten dowels, pending on wood type some is easier than others. I have straighten oak and birch dowels with little success staying straight. hickory and POC with better results. as far as tempering, I have tempered shafts similar to tempering hickory ramrods for muzzleloaders, and I didn't see a lot of benefit, but the material was POC. As far as point or tip fire harding...I have always used some type of metal point. therefore harding or tempering the point was not needed.
DBar
-
You say you "chose the straightest ones"... I really hope you didn't mean that you just grabbed a handful of dowels and chose the straight ones. I use dowels almost exclusively but you must be very selective of the **straightness of the grain** when sighting down the dowels. You want the grain to run as straight as possible with as few run outs as possible for 32-36" of the dowel (if you're buying 48" dowels). In my experience, poplar dowels will break very easily at run outs. It's a shame to put time and effort into an arrow to have it break on the first impact or worse, when loosed from the string!
If I look through a stack of 100...200... 300 dowels I'm very happy to find 5-10 perfect ones that I'd trust without reserve. There are times where I'll look through a hundred dowels and not find a single suitable arrow.
3/8 poplar with good grain usually spines 80-100+ For me but you can sand them like bubbles does (eliminates all the guess work and makes them all matched in spine). I shoot 5/16. If I'm lucky enough to find a small pile of the ones with good grain ill take home 6 or so of the stiffest ones. They spine round 45-50# give or take a few. You'll be able to tell when they're way under spined so eliminate those ones while you're still at the store.. Some 5/16 will flex like a wet noodle. Sort through enough dowels and you'll get a feel for what that 45-50 pounds feels like and your take home success will improve.
I straighten by hand as well.
Appreciate the informative response. Unfortunately I did choose the ones with straight shape rather than grain. However, I don't shoot at anything other than cardboard, and the dowels have handled well so far. However I missed once and hit a badly placed concrete slab and the arrow split at the tip.
The reason why I bought 3/8" was because the homedepot sells the dowels 7/16", 3/8", and then something much smaller than 5/16". I knew before buying that 5/16 is a common arrow diameter, closest thing was 3/8 so I bought it. but I didn't realize the significance of 1/16 of an inch.
Next time I go out to buy, I will definitely take into consideration and use this information. Thanks.
-
I like to doll up my arrows with stains, cresting and wild turkey feathers, I won't put this kind of time building nice arrows into shafts with grain runout.
My above mentioned poplars had no grain runout, I never broke one, I have two left, the rest were offerings to to the woods gods behind the targets I missed. It took me ten years to loose the bulk of them.
-
Poplar is some of the best, toughest doweled arrows I've used. I got a couple of dozen from Charlie Jefferson(stringstretcher) a few years back. Charlie made his dowels from well seasoned poplar he cut and seasoned himself from fresh cut poplar timbers.