Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Flight Bows => Topic started by: avcase on August 13, 2015, 04:10:30 pm
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Our U.S. Flight Nationals is less than a month away and I expect that this will be a good one. I hope to see some new folks show up this year and give it a try. We could especially use some more competition to bolster the primitive classes.
The location: Bonneville Speedway, just east of Wendover, Utah
The schedule is as follows:
Wednesday (Sept. 2) My family and other members of the organizing committee will start showing up at the Bonneville event location to set up camp, practice, and scope out areas to set the shooting lines.
Thursday afternoon (Sept. 3) Event set-up and registration
Fri & Sat, Sept. (4 & 5) Regular flight competition
Sun (Sept. 6) the Broadhead competition. & awards
For a more detailed schedule, see: http://www.usflightarchery.com (http://www.usflightarchery.com)
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I'll be out as a spectator. If I had the money I would love to shoot, but I am also not anywhere ready for it.
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Better watch out Joe, we might just put you to work!
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Wouldn't be the first time!
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The registration costs are $45 (adult) or $15 (youth 18 and under).
A membership to USA Archery is also required. If you don't have one, you have the option of purchasing a $15 temporary membership which is good for just this event, or a $50 membership good for one year.
It would be unfortunate to come out to the event and not shoot due to registration cost. If it is a hardship for anyone, then I am sure we can find a way to work something out. Even if you are not ready with your own gear, there are often more bows available to shoot, than there are archers. Don't hesitate to contact me. Of course, we will try to put you to work whether you shoot or not! ;)
Alan
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Joe if you can come a day earlier we will be practicing. Just a little practice you might get it down.
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Give me an arrow weight to shoot for, a have a few weeks!
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If you are interested in broadhead you will need 500 grains and your bow will need to not weigh more than your weight class when measured to the back of the broadhead. If you are shooting unlimited weight class your bow will not be weighed.
For the regular flight shooting the general rule of thought is as light as you can get and still maintain stiffness. About 200 grains with a 24" arrow is pretty typical. a little more or less. This is for the 50# classes. We will have some arrows you can use if you don't get them made. I have plenty.
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Maybe I'll get my juniper bow tillered the rest of the way!
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I agree with Steve.
My best advice on arrows is to diversify and make as many arrows as you can to cover a decent range of weights and center of balance. For example, for a 50# bow and 24" arrow, it wouldn't hurt to have arrows 165 grains to 225 grains. Just make sure not to go so light in spine with the arrow that it is in danger of exploding. Make them nice and straight and don use too thick feathers for Fletching. I favor rounding over the point, like the nose of a 747 jet, instead of leaving a sharp point, but you can experiment with that too.
I wouldn't hesitate trying to finish up your juniper bow. Or take it as far as you can. The fun thing about primitive flight is that I've even seen an archer finish shaping and tillering his bow at the event and I think he may have even broke a record with it.
My first year, in 2004, I barely cleared 100 yards, but I had a great time, learned a lot from some great bow builders, and have been coming back every year since.
Alan
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My juniper is a 55 inch, sinew backed Utah juniper. Maybe a 24 inch draw!
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Allen, Allen Courier finished up his simple comp bow while we were shooting on the line, Ike was cussing at him and having a fit. He broke the 50# broadhead record with the bow. I chased his record for about 10 years until I got it. This is actually a good example of shooting a fresh bow! It had only been brought to full draw at the weight scales one time before shooting it. My 50# self bow that I hold a record with is kind of an odd ball, I shoot it every year and also use it in 3 d competitions ( drawing 26") the bow gets a few yards better every year.
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Steve,
Thanks for filling in the details. I remember being amazed watching that entire process leading up to Allen Currier's broadhead record. Ike shouting and angry about delays while Dan Perry & others helping with the string and other details so he could shoot the thing. I wonder what ever happened to Mr. Currier?
Joe,
The minimum arrow length allowed for primitive is 23". If you are going for a 50-lb & under draw weight class, then you have to go through a weigh-in process. The officials at the weigh-in area will take your longest arrow, and draw your bow just far enough that the point of the arrow starts to fall free from the shelf, if you have one, and they will take a draw weight reading. As long as it he draw weight is 50#, or less, then you are okay. If your bow doesn't have a shelf, then the bow will be drawn until the point of the arrow would start to drop free of the bow if it was turned horizontally, or approximately even with the belly side of the bows arrow pass. It is important to be aware of this so you don't find yourself having to cut down your arrows at the last minute. If you measure your maximum 24" draw from the back of the bow, then you will need to make sure your arrows are short enough that it passes the weigh-in process.
The weigh-in is always a bit tense for the primitive classes. Whoever is running the scales will need to be made aware that the primitive bows are held drawn for as little time as possible, and that the bow is not drawn past the draw weight cutoff.
If you are shooting in an unlimited weight class, then you can bypass the weigh-in process and shoot whatever length arrows you want.
Alan
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Joe, bring some of your better shooting bows, they might surprise you. Most of the bows that get the best distances are not hot rods. They get the arrow out cleanly, if the arrow gets off to a good start it makes a world of difference in the distance you will get.
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Steve,
A good example is your 50# simple composite record of over 346 yards. The arrow was pretty heavy, and your string looked pretty hefty too because you were having all kinds I breakage issues. Your bow was well built and proportioned, but not very extreme. The results were pretty extreme however, breaking a nearly 20 year old record by nearly 20 yards. I was impressed!
Alan
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Allen, that particular bow has some history to it. I took it to a walk the talk event and it tested out at 188 with a fast flight string. In the official test it tested at 186 because of a very tight arrow nock. After several years the bow had broken down considerably and was actually had a broken glue line at the handle and fade area, current 500 grain speed at the time the record was set was only 172 fps. Not sure with light arrows how fast it shot.
The bow I had high hopes for is heads and shoulders faster than any bow I have ever competed with, it did not do so well. I have some super stiff 188 gran arrows I am going to shoot out of it this year and see if they do better.
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Flight archers are already starting to congregate at the Bonneville Salt Flats near Webdover, Utah. I know Steve (AKA Badger) has been practicing since yesterday and we are finally rolling in today. Conditions have never been drier since I started flight archery in 2004, so this should be a good one! Stay tuned for results when shooting commences this Friday.
Alan
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Weather is calling for rain! I hope it doesn't hit ya!
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There's no rain predicted here in the latest forecast, just lots of wind. Joe, come on out!
Alan
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It's a bit too late now but if I had known there was going to be more people interest in flight shooting I would have sent down that little Elm recurve flightbow I built a few years ago for someone to shoot.
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the wind is pushing the arrows down this year. I hope tomorrow it eases up. I have only had a couple of good arrows so far in practice and they were shot from a bow not even intended for flight. Go figure???
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Good luck Steve, keep us posted on how it's going. :)
Pappy
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Come on folks we await the reports back
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Results !
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Allen should have results posted in a few days. I had no personal records set but overall I had a pretty good shoot. I believe that Josef from Hungary set some now primitive records but I can't say what they were. I was Happy to have my Simple comp broadhead record survive a challenge by Josef. He seems to get most of the records he goes after.
Jordan Case, set a new women 50# self bow flight record of 328 yards using an osage self bow I made her and an arrow made by her father Allen case. That was a great shot as it exceeded all the primitive women records in all classes.
I am still somewhat miffed by the ongoing problem of arrows kicking as they leave the bow. During the two day practice session I gave myself this year I found by accident that an unfinished bow I had brought but set aside because of a misaligned handle actually outshot all my flight bows because of the clean arrow flight out of the bow. Broadheads and target arrows don't seem to be so affected as the sensitive little flight arrows. They don't seem to tolerate much shelf or arrow pass contact.
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So a closer to center shelf makes for cleaner flight? Is that what I am hearing? Now we can use a stiffer arrow? Arvin
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Arvin, I am leaning toward well past center.
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And we can still call that primitive? ;D Arvin
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So, how was your speed? Did you crack 200fps 10gpp or are you leaving that alone?
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Sleek, in flight shooting raw speed is not as important as good tuning of the bow and arrow. Shooting broadhead flight raw speed is more important. All well made bows will be close enough in performance that good clean releases and good tuning will always trump the slight differences one might get.
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Who won what and how far did they go????
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I didn't have any personal bests myself or new records. I was very pleased with a shot Jordan Case made using one of my bows and one of her daddy's arrows. She got 328 yards shooting a 35# osage self bow. This gave her a further distance than any female records in any female primitive classes. Joseph from Hungary did very well as usual with his heavy bows in several classes.
I did have a personal best in practice that really made me rethink my strategy. I shot about 380 yards with a bow that wasn't even designed for flight and not particularly fast, just a nece self bow, very clean arrow flight was the key here. Next year I will be focusing on the arrow passes, brace heights, nocking points and arrows, anything I can do to improve how clean they come out of the bow.
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Good info', you've got me thinking flight again :).
The field where I shoot is prob' just about usable for one more go. I've nearly finished a 40# @28" Yew Molle', it would be interesting to see how far it will send some of my arrows.... Mind it's made as a left hander >:( and if I shoot it right handed there's a ton of paradox.
Del