Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 11:20:21 am

Title: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 11:20:21 am
Ok a while back I got in trade a perfect Juniper stave. 
Right now it is cut to 67" long , 2" wide. 1 1/4 deep handle x 1 1/4.
Limbs 1 " at fades and 3/4 at tips. Limbs are not tapered to a point yet.
I want to do an Ancient Euro bow and back this one with raw hide.
Where do you think I need to take thickness down too ? 
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 16, 2015, 11:41:27 am
It takes a lot of juniper to make a bow.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't already starting to flex at floor tiller.  I would shape it to your desired front profile and tiller it to brace.  I would then put your rawhide on and finish tillering.   I wouldn't worry about having to remove excess wood by hand.  Juniper is extremely easy to work.  Especially in comparison to Osage.  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 11:51:06 am
There is some flex already.  Now the back isn't perfectly smooth. Should I get it smooth and
then back it ? I want a design sort of like a Meare Heath.

Dog
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Pat B on September 16, 2015, 12:06:51 pm
What Josh said!   
  Get the back as smooth as you can before adding the rawhide. I've not worked juniper before but with any wood you should make the back as clean as possible. The tension wood is where you can really get in trouble if it is not handled correctly.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 16, 2015, 12:07:30 pm
Meare-heath sounds like a good fit for your stave.  I would only smooth it up enough to ensure good adhesion for your rawhide.  The sharper the edge of bumps and dips, the higher the chance that your rawhide won't conform to it.  That leaves troublesome voids and air pockets or bubbles of thick glue that can come back to haunt you later.  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Pat B on September 16, 2015, 12:08:59 pm
Listen to Josh!   ;)
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 16, 2015, 12:16:25 pm
Your just quicker on the draw than I am Pat!  Lol!  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 12:27:06 pm
Thank you. Cutting more as I watch a 3 year old.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2015, 12:53:36 pm
  I would strongly consider sinew backing the bow, juniper without sinew has an extremely high failure rate. They make great sinew backed bows. Several how to threads on sinewing if you care to learn. I would clean the back up but make sure you don't violate the ring when you smooth it up. Mear heath design sounds good.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 01:19:19 pm
Ok, but why wouldn't raw hide work ? I want to understand.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2015, 01:48:42 pm
Rawhide is helpful, better than nothing but gives just a little extra insurance and is not a working part of the bow. Juniper is weak in tension and usually gives out after a short life span of shooting.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 02:01:25 pm
Ok, understand. The back on this was dippy and lumps. Rings are very very thin. 1/16 " . So I do think at least one round of sinew with raw hide too.
The bad thing for me is that after working for 35 years at a bust your hump rate, it's hard to go slow.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Pat B on September 16, 2015, 02:12:13 pm
You better learn to go slow if you are going to be a successful bowyer.  ;) Patience is your #1 tool.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 16, 2015, 02:33:48 pm
I wouldnt smooth the dips and bumps,,,try not to violate rings if possible,,,I agree with the sinew making a good back for higher success rate,,maybe two layers at least,,,you can apply at once if you are in a hurry,,
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 03:01:45 pm
Got it  :o    What if I violated a little ? Very hard to tell in this white sap wood.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 16, 2015, 03:24:40 pm
Juniper is a softwood and as such has a completely different wood structure than hardwood.  If violating the rings was a threat, I wouldn't have suggested smoothing out the back.  Just make sure the violations are feathered out smoothly and you'll be fine.  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 03:32:02 pm
Now I am not being disrespectful , but in the line of work I was in I was a very successful heavy mechanic. When a steel dump trailer was wrecked they
came to me. I would cut apart weld back and even make parts that could not be had. when they were down money was lost. that's why fast.
I can slow down and have . still hard to. I do not have a shop so I work from a chair or on the ground. I love learning and will continue. That's why
I trust you here to help. Thanks.

Dog
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 16, 2015, 03:33:23 pm
Thanks Josh. I will proceed.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 16, 2015, 03:53:46 pm
On a side note, what Pat said about patience being your best tool goes double when working juniper.  You have to really take your time and train the wood to bend through lots and lots of exercise as you tiller.  I think impatience has contributed as much to juniper's bad reputation as anything.  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 17, 2015, 02:14:45 pm
Moving ahead on this bow slowly. Got my pin knocks roughed in and going to fill the little knot valleys.
I need to taper the limbs a small amount too. It is a heavy over build now so I need to reduce the
limbs a little too. Not much , but a little. I will get some pics up.

Dog
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 18, 2015, 11:40:33 am
I'm looking forward to seeing pics of your progress.  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 11:57:36 am
I'll get my camera charged and post some.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 12:06:14 pm
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ofiebakoa/DSC01909_zps8p7rexif.jpg) (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ofiebakoa/media/DSC01909_zps8p7rexif.jpg.html) full view
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 12:09:06 pm
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ofiebakoa/DSC01911_zpssz2adkhv.jpg) (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ofiebakoa/media/DSC01911_zpssz2adkhv.jpg.html)(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ofiebakoa/DSC01910_zpsk02x8dxl.jpg) (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ofiebakoa/media/DSC01910_zpsk02x8dxl.jpg.html)
The handle and tip. Valleys filled with saw dust and super glue.
Limbs are bending, but need to thin them out a bit more and buy rawhide.

Dog :P
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Pat B on September 18, 2015, 12:13:26 pm
Id get the last 6" to 8" of the tips reduced in width to eliminate some unneeded physical weight. A straight taper to 3/8" should work fine.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 12:34:46 pm
Pat this is going to be a Meare Heath. I need to narrow down to 1 1/2 " according to research
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Pat B on September 18, 2015, 12:39:31 pm
OK, I guess I missed that. In that case, well done so far.  ;)
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Badger on September 18, 2015, 12:41:40 pm
  I don't think I would narrow a juniper bow down to 1 1 /2 unless the handle was bending, one of the best shooting bows I have ever seen was a sinew backed juniper that had to be over 2" wide. If you get a chance do you have the ability to physically weigh your bow. Not the draw weight but the actual weight.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 01:30:33 pm
Well so far 2" at fades to 6" for tips. Tips are down to 1 1/2".   3/4" at end of fades down to 1/2". Put it on a long string. Hits dead center of handle.
Braced it to 6" - 10" - 15" .   This thing weighs almost nothing. At least to me.  I got used to lifting 110 Pound brake drums so hard to say.

Thanks Pat.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 02:01:25 pm
Got my rawhide coming. Now just round out edges and wait.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 18, 2015, 05:34:16 pm
Now that is a nice stave!  You have it shaping to be a beauty.  What species of juniper and what would you guess the rings per inch is?  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 18, 2015, 06:35:42 pm
I got it from Chuck Loeffler so mountain juniper I think. About 40 rings per inch. Very fine.
Thank you.

Dog
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 18, 2015, 10:50:55 pm
Oh my!  That is nice!  40 rpi is pretty good.  I hope you thanked Chuck profusely and enthusiastically for hooking you up with that baby!  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 19, 2015, 01:00:09 am
I did. I sent him an osage and hickory staves.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Josh B on September 20, 2015, 01:11:34 pm
Well....nothing says thank you like Osage and hickory to Western bowyer that doesn't have local access to either!  Sounds like a good trade all around!  Josh
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on September 21, 2015, 09:36:07 pm
Got some raw hide coming. When it gets here , I will march onward.
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on October 07, 2015, 01:56:14 pm
Ok, I cut out some horn and got it flattened. Super glued one on and clamped. How long should I leave it clamped ?
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: JoJoDapyro on October 07, 2015, 02:03:30 pm
Looks to be Utah Juniper. Rocky Mountain has Purple sapwood. Utah has orange/brown. Looks good.

Heartwood. lol
Title: Re: Direction on a bow
Post by: Spotted Dog on October 19, 2015, 06:50:28 pm
I am about ready to back my bow. I glued on Highland cattle horn at the tips. I have prepared the bow surface .
Now just waiting for a time I feel good enough to do it.