Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: blackhawk on September 23, 2015, 11:20:27 am
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This doesnt seem to get talked about much,and havent heard much talk about it lately. When making a bow do any of you sweat your bows before applying the finishing touches? If so, how long and why you think that.
To make things clear by defintition of sweat i mean leaving the bow braced for a certain amount of time. I know some dont do it at all,and some will let em sit braced overnight (8 hours or so),and everything in between.
My take on it is if its not a hunting bow i think its not really necessary as a target or flight bow isnt ever gonna braced that long,and wood actually be detrimental in my eyes for a flight bow. But for hunting bows that are gonna be braced for hours or most of the day it makes sense.
And one more thought. How long in hours braced do you think it usually takes for a bow to take ALL its set? Sometimes i have bows that still lose a lil more after I apply my finish. But I suppose thats pretty common for most all bows.
I dont have a set rule or time on how long i sweat a bow. Seems like if its a hunting bow ill sweat it for at least a couple hiurs or so,and will shoot it as well.
So whats everybody elses thoughts,opinions,etc....
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I don't intentionally do it very often, unless I forget to pop the string off after shooting. And that has happened a time or four.
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Most of the time at home when I'm in no hurry when I get the bow braced and it's looking ok I won't even start pulling or tiller in it for at least a couple hours. I tend to let it sit for two to four hours a lot while I'm working on stuff
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Nope. I don't do it. No need.
I tiller it so that it's balanced relative to my holds at full draw, drawing there several dozen times on the tree following any last corrections, go shoot it 150-200 times and then apply the finishing touches.
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Most of the time at home when I'm in no hurry when I get the bow braced and it's looking ok I won't even start pulling or tiller in it for at least a couple hours. I tend to let it sit for two to four hours a lot while I'm working on stuff
Similar idea, I tend anymore to leave it braced while I tiller as well. But it's kind of random on how much or how long I "sweat" it in. Pretty much go by feel or gut on most of them. Thanks for bringing up this question Chris.
Patrick
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Thats good you brought this up Black. I will shoot the bow in about 30-50 shots. Check it over for stress cracks and frets or de-lamination. Then I will leave it braced for 3-5 hours. Sometimes I will leave it braced 2-3 hours shoot another 40 arrows then leave it braced for another 4 hours. Just finished my last bow shot it at least 120 times and left it braced a total of 8 hours. 6 one day and 2 hours after tillering. It has taken all the set its gooona take............One more thing I dont think some guys are bracing their bows high enough, gotta be a good fistmele. ;)
"And one more thought. How long in hours braced do you think it usually takes for a bow to take ALL its set?
3-4 hours
"Sometimes i have bows that still lose a lil more after I apply my finish."
Never found that myself and I use water based clear coat.
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Nope. I don't do it. No need.
So Jeff....what your saying is that Dean Torges is wrong? Lol >:D :laugh:
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Bow101...the bows that did lose a lil more after finish were prob ones i rushed thru,and blew a hundred or so arras out of in only an hour or so worth of time altogether,n maybe two hours of brace time tillering it out. I think a bow needs to be braced for a certain length of time before it shows its true position. If not things could change after finish.
It seems like this practice has gone more to the wayside as of late...just wondering why,and if anyone does think there is merit to it anymore.
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when I'm close to weight i usually leave it braced as much as possible while Im working on it. I used to be more concerned about it but now i just want to get it over with. the sooner I know what the woods going to do, the sooner I can finish her up.
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What do you think would happen if you didn't sweat it? For hunting, I mean. Are you thinking that after being braced for a long time it might break when you draw it?
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Not break so much, but change tiller/balance.
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Last warbow, I deliberately O:) left it overnight ;)
It was interesting watching the string follow drop from about 1 3/4" down to 1 1/8 after a few hours and then overnight right down to 3/4".
Del
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I used to always sweat my bows for a couple hours and still do some but once i get to low brace i leave it braced while working on it and when i get to 22" or so i stretch it out shooting it so it ends up braced a lot
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Actually, I've never heard of this until now. I always exercise my limbs real good when final tillering. If one limb were to get out of wack over time, it's no big deal, I would just scrape the other to match. As far as finishes, I never use anything but linseed oil so that's not an issue.
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I've done it. Just found it unnecessary and of no additional benefit to the time it's spent braced and drawn while being made and shot in.
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Once I get it braced it stays strung for a while. I will shoot some and tiller if necessary. I would say a good 4-5 hours strung till I say it's done. I have left a couple bows strung for a couple days before accidentally. No ill affect that I could tell.
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I think (so mostly a guess here) a lot of the benefit to this was way back when with TBB was newer and the rules to tillering were to remove wood where it needed to be removed from and to repeat until done. The emphasis on working in the changes and exercising the bow at tiller was not there back then, certainly not the way it is now. I tend to think that the exercising and sweating serve much the same purpose (interesting that those two terms are connected in this context too...) and that with the emphasis on exercising most bows are unlikely to change much after final tiller is reached. That would fit with the fact that this was a term people used to talk about, but as was mentioned it is also a practice that seems to have fallen out of favor somewhat.
SOM
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I tiller at brace as well. Often while tillering I will let it sit a bit and rest my eyes so I can see the tiller with fresh eyes. I may tiller a bow for an hour or so like that. Hunting bows I brace for hours because thats how they will live their life, and any set or change in tiller I want to happen now than later. Lighter weight bows, I dont do that so much but I do shoot them all many times. A few seconds at full draw equals much more time at brace.
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I was told a bow is under the most pressure at brace and the least amount fully drawn.
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I don't have a "timer" running but once it gets to brace and working on the tiller it pretty much stays braced. But I may work on tiller 1 hour today and it may be a week or two before I work on it again. I also start shooting it while tillering. As long as it don't have a bad flaw, Once I get to 12 -15 inch draw, I'll shoot it a few shots at that draw length and pretty much do that after each round of scraping until I get to full draw. For me it seems to register the tiller adjustment better and I can "feel" how it shoots. If the "feel" gets better, stays the same, or especially if it gets worse, I know I'm on the right track or not. I do exercise it a lot as well.
When do y'all start shooting the bow?
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I will leave it strung 4 hours at a time like hunting bow,,,,,If I was making a bow for someone, I would want to make sure the tiller does not shift,, so would shoot alot and leave braced a few hours at a time, for several sessions,, if the limbs were reflexed I would be extra patient about shooting the bow in,, or if the bow was pushing the limits in design,, I start shooting the bow when I can draw it to 20 inches hitting target weight,,, before I string the bow the first time, I leave it on the tiller tree at about brace height for a few hours,, "pre sweating" especially a heavy bow,, I find it just a bit easier to string when I do this,, i guess if you shot the bow enough there would be no need
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I exercise the bow limbs about 50 times and then check tiller. But I'm sure the leaving braced for a few hours method works just as well.
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Son of Massey, I can concur with that.
I don't shoot a bow until I'm done tillering it, and I'm not done tillering it until I've coaxed it to full draw, finessed flexing up to/into the dips, found and fixed anything of any concern whatsoever from alignment to final limb timing relative to the archer's holds, all final shaped, rounded, sanded smooth, and then excercised at full draw dozens of times.... then I begin to shoot it.
It's basically done, ready to be dyed/sprayed when I begin to shoot it.
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I don't hunt for more than 3 hours at a time so I see no need in sweating a bow for more than that.
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I was told a bow is under the most pressure at brace and the least amount fully drawn.
Im certain that reference is to string tension not bow strain.
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Chris, once I floor tiller a bow I go to full brace right after a test low brace. I leave it braced throughout the tillering process which is probably an hour or a little more. I unbrace here and there to see if it is holding its profile but for the most part it stays braced. Then I spend about 15 more minutes shooting it in.
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Back in the day(way back as well) it was just as common to tiller while repeatedly exercising to show changes. Bows were also much more likely to be slightly broken down when they were considered shot in.
Comstock wrote a whole article on breaking in a bow a few years back.
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I was told a bow is under the most pressure at brace and the least amount fully drawn.
Im certain that reference is to string tension not bow strain.
The correct info is that the string tension is higher than the measured draw weight by several pounds at brace and that weight decreases gradually on the draw and then rises back up to the braced string tension at around full draw.
Pope mentions 64 pounds of string tension on a 56 pound bow at brace and 26 inches of draw.
The bow itself obviously must be under more stress at full draw.
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I sweat a bow from brace(if all is good) through full draw after I quit a tillering session, starting at about 1 hour at brace and a little longer as tiller draw increases. I've left bows braced for 5 or 6 hours at a time. When hunting I brace just before I go out and exercise the bow a bit. When I get back to camp or the car I unbraced. As long as there is a chance of a shot I keep my bow braced.
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In the past I would sweat the bow for a couple separate 3-4 hour sessions at a time. Anymore once I have it at brace height and limbs evened out I'll leave like that for a couple more 3-4 hour sessions while I work on
reducing the belly and tillering, takes me awhile to tiller one out. ;D I'm no natural talent at tillering or anywhere near the level of a few guys I worked on bows around who can nail the tiller and draw weight in the time it takes me to have 2 beers.
I will also shoot my bows in quite a bit at short draws when I'm about 4" from target draw length until I tiller it out to full draw. I also put a least 150 arrows through it at full draw before finishing.
As far a a hunting bow I try to stick with the ones that are well broke in and that I know can take being strung for up to 8 hours and bounce right back.
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I more or less do as Steve (badger) does
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I feel like I can trust the bow more if it can be braced for half of the day then shoot a few. Then again I intend to hunt with all of the bows I make for myself. I tend to put my trade bow through a few more paces. They might sweat for 3 or 4 several hour sessions, just to make sure my guy doesn't end up with a broken bow.
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Mine are hunting bows too, to be strung for several hours at a time, but I generally don't do it before they're trained to bend properly.
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Maybe an hour when I first get it to full brace, then an hour here and there while I am tillering
it . I rarely leave it braced while I am tillering. I always check it/mark what I want to do and unstring. Make my scrapes or any adjustments I want and brace it back up. :) Not sure that is the proper way but rarely have one change weight or tiller once it is finished unless the wood isn't seasoned well. I hardly ever use wood less than 2 or 3 years old and prefer it to be older if possible. :) I know some say dry is dry but I feel other wise. :) OPPS another can of worms. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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Maybe an hour when I first get it to full brace, then an hour here and there while I am tillering
it . I rarely leave it braced while I am tillering. I always check it/mark what I want to do and unstring. Make my scrapes or any adjustments I want and brace it back up. :) Not sure that is the proper way but rarely have one change weight or tiller once it is finished unless the wood isn't seasoned well. I hardly ever use wood less than 2 or 3 years old and prefer it to be older if possible. :) I know some say dry is dry but I feel other wise. :) OPPS another can of worms. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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I agree Pappy . I will take 6-7 % over 9 any time. Maybe cause where I live. But that's where I like my bows. I am in process of having 60 staves on hand and adding twenty a year that way I always have dry wood. Arvin
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Pappy, I used to believe that dry was dry and seasoning had nothing to do with it. I can't speak for all types of wood but I do believe that osage continues to gain stiffness as it seasons. I have been using the same bow for my broadhead flght competition for about 6 years now maybe more. Every year including this year I have to take weight off to make the 50# class. The bow has also continued to gain speed with time. This year I wanted to shoot it at 30" instead of 28 so I scraped it down a few months ahead of time. By the time I got it to the flight shoots it was 50# at 28" again. The bow did well considering it was shot into a headwind as opposed to a tailwind but no record this year. I don't think any broadhead records have been set without some wind assist. I also use this same bow for 3 d shooting and occassional hunting trips where it will be braced for hours at a time. The bow has never lost an ounce since the day it was built, it does seem to continue to gain weight though.
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I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be talking about working on bows at MOJAM in July!
<snip>...or anywhere near the level of a few guys I worked on bows around who can nail the tiller and draw weight in the time it takes me to have 2 beers.<snip>
BB, You've really got to work on your drinking skills brother! ;D 8)
OneBow
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I do the fine tiller on the braced bow.
Let it strung over night, controlling tiller and sometimes a few scrapes here and then are needed.
After a 100 or so shots and controlling again I call it reaady for finishing.
BTW.: I like to have bow braced min. 15 minutes braced before every shooting.
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I've never sweated a bow on purpose.
I do exercise it a lot and leave it strung for the final couple inches.
I always do some short drawing and exercising before shooting too.
I understand why some sweat, I just prefer to shoot the bow and take the final tillering slow.
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Eric, my drinking skills may be lacking somewhat but its my tillering skills that need the most work.
Of course there is no reason a guy couldn't work to improve both. ;D
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Yup...lots of ways to skin this cat...i knew id see a lot of different views and ways of doing it. Good discussion guys..thanks :)