Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Mo_coon-catcher on October 25, 2015, 05:58:35 pm
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I've been having this problem for a while now and I can't seem to break it. Some days I shoot real well, others I can barely keep on a round bale at 20 yards. It pretty much is that if I don't want to shoot something and have no intention of loosing the arrow I can draw down in it and hold until my arms get tired. But as soon as I remotely think about letting go an arrow at it, I can't even hold anchor just touch it before the string slips from my fingers. If I focus on exactly where I want to hit with the snap shooting I can hit pretty close, but if I focus of the draw and form instead o the target in seperate steps I loose the arrow Before I can even think about the target so then I'm not even close to what I want to hit. It gets very frustrating. I've been doing a lot of the closed eyes draw, anchor, hold, release. It seems to help some but I always fall back into my bad form. It's atleat got me so I can draw and hold when I don't want to shoot something. Think I should just embrace my snap shooting and fine tune that, or try to correct my errors so I can anchor then aim? Anyone have any tips?
All help appreciated,
Thanks,
Kyle
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Kyle,
I'm sort of a hybrid/gap shooter so I subconsciously aim with my point...I have had target panic come and go several times and basically had to shoot my way out...Being in archery condition so your not panicing to shoot before you start shaking badly is important...Try to pull back and aim with your arrow and let back down, play some mental games with yourself...Shooting close always helped me also...The fear of missing is a $#%^@! Good luck, been there :o
Don
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Ok,, I have a floating anchor most the time,, that seems to help me,, I dont really snap shoot,, I draw the bow as far as I want and then let it go, by pulling through the shot,,,, when I try to anchor on my face or something,, I dont do as well,,
I shoot bows designed for a short draw most the time anyway, so the floating anchor is natural for that,, 24 to 25 inches is my comfort zone,, so I am not really short drawing for that design bow,, I am pulling it to full draw,, I shoot well at close range hunting shots,, and am happy with that,, I dont compete any more and that has helped me more than anything,, I just shoot for fun and to keep in practice for hunting,,
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Kyle,
You might want to try a clicker. I have similar issues as you, and put a clicker on my bow this year. It has really helped.
Good luck,
Preston
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Mo,
This is hard to explain but hopefully you can get the concept. I make my arrows so that the head touches my bow hand at full draw. When I shoot I have the bow arm extended toward the target and pull the string back away from it, untill the head touches my hand and the "loose" is automatic at that point (through repetitive practice). This form does not require an aiming point, because as you stare at the target spot your brain will automaticaly draw back in line with that target. This is like using your bow-hand index finger to "point" at your target, then pulling back the string (if you do this without loosing concentration on your spot) your string hand will automatically draw back in alignment with the spot. The reason for the head touching the hand is the same as ptaylor's clicker. As soon as that head touches your finger it's gone....it will become automatic and require no thought at all....the same is true for the draw method, it will become automatic as well.
Here's the point.... you are making the draw and release automatic, so there is no thought to those two things just the "spot" and concentration and the shot goes right where you are looking. The one thing to avoid though is taking a "quick peek" to see if the deer is looking back....stare at the spot....stare at the spot and stare at it some more.....then draw and shoot .
If you give yourself the chance to use this then you can shoot sitting down, laying down or standing ....it wont make any difference. You can practice the "automatic" muscle memory parts by shooting at a carpet or such with your eyes closed....that will condition you to "feel" the shot without thinking about it, and the feel of the head on your hand will condition the release trigger as well.
I'm not good at writing out explanations so if you have some questions please feel free to give me a call (231) 587-8542 or email me your TX at rousseau.rd@att.net
rich
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I have had lots of issue with this, and have improved a bunch this year. Rich's method sounds good; I have had some luck with making a loop of velcro tape to put on the arrow shaft with enough pointing down to feel it on my bow hand - same as making the arrows the right length, but you can use longer arrows when needed. The biggest thing has been making sure I get to full draw though, making sure my back muscles are working, and pushing towards the target with my bow hand. Picturing my draw arm lined up behind the arrow helps too (it probably is just another way to think about back tension).
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http://www.amazon.com/Instinctive-Archery-Insights-Revised-Edition/dp/0963971824
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i broke my target panic quite easily. for me it was all about rhythm. i counted... as i drew i consciously thought " anchor, two, release (on three)". i found it just got me loosing on simple command at first but soon became subconscious rhythm
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@Kyle
you wrote: "If I focus on exactly where I want to hit with the snap shooting I can hit pretty close, but if I focus of the draw and form instead o the target in seperate steps I loose the arrow Before I can even think about the target..."
and you do right with your snap shooting cause the basicly part of snap or instinctive shooting is to focus the point on the target, where you want to hit. Drawing and releasing the arrow runs automaticlly ....
the question is: do you want to hit pretty close or do you want to shoot with a good form a perfect draw and a long anchortime ;)?
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Hey Kyle, I trust you. I have all four Masters of the Barebow DVD series you can borrow and send back to me when you're done. Number four is probably the best for you, but the others will all have tid-bits in them to help out. I battle the same thing you do, but I've gotten much better the last 2-3 months. PM me if your interested in borrowing them.
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The Jay Kidwell book (Instinctive Archery Insights) is pretty helpful. Mr. Drums gave me some good advice too at some point last year (thanks PD!); that a super nice offer to loan you his DVDs.
Andrew, it seems that you are saying to keep snap shooting if it is close enough. We are all different, but for me at least, shooting like that works sometimes, but often leads to erratic shooting and always leads to a short draw. I want to have mental control of the process so that I have the confidence to shoot a game animal. If you are in control of snap shooting and can hit close enough to make good shots at your desired distance from the target, that's great. You don't need Olympic recurve accuracy for hunting, but having control of the shot is still important. I don't have a long anchor time either. I want to be able to shoot quickly, but for me, shooting quickly is waaaayy different than snap shooting.
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Kyle wrote, that he hit pretty close with snap shooting - and in my opinion: never change a running team ;)
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I completely agree if he is thinking "I really should be holding longer, even though I am hitting within an inch or two of my target and touching anchor every time". For me, I will end up with a 22" draw, shoot holes in my garage, be a real pain in the butt to be around, and quit hunting if I don't hold long enough to settle in (ideally a second or so). But, I had a REALLY severe case of target panic; your results may vary!
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Golf is kinda the same way. You want a rhythm, for me I count 1..2..3... for my backswing, and then 1...2...3... for my swing, thus avoiding my guts telling me to try and kill the ball. Same with shooting, Get a count on your draw, 1...2...3... and loose. I am a snapper as well. But for me it works.
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I went to a Rod Jenkins shooting clinic a few years ago. Helped improve my shooting. His technique is explained in the later MBB dvd's.
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HALF EYE'S right for some people touch can break your panic.
Heres what I did in the ealy 90's. And this is how I broke it. At the time I worked for a surveyer that was totally into HOWARD HILL.
My target panicwas so bad I had nothing to lose. So I learned to aim and shoot HILL syle.
His way of aiming works great shooting distance. I mean at 50 yards I could put 10 arrows in the end of a hay bail.
But unfortently closer you shoot 20 or under you shoot instivite. The ways I buck hunt are all shoot under 15 yards. So I unknowinglly steped by and shot instintive.
DOING THIS CURED MY TRAGET PANIC. iT'S NEVER CAME BACK.
Some people just get close at a bail don't but a traget on it. Ans just shoot. In the dark helps some people
Some people only shoot at a natural looking deer target.
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I appreciate the advice everyone. Pearl drums that's a very generous offer, if your still interested in letting me borrow the DVDs let me know and I'll take you up on the offer. What you guys describes where you start out shooting well but eventually fall apart, start short drawing, and becoming sporadic is what happens to me. And the worse my agooting gets the more I mess up and the shorter I start drawing. I feel like I need to gain that control of my shot. right now it is to where that when snap shooting on my better days I usually maintain a grapefruit sized cluster to about 15-20 yards depending on the day, but once I start missing I go way downhill and missing by a yard or more as close as 10 yards at times.
After some thinking i realized that over the last few years I havnt had one bow that I stick to for most of my shooting. Most of the shooting I end up doing is when I make a bow for someone I shoot it a bunch then it goes on to its new home. I'm feeling like that could be a major culprit of my problem, I've never had one bow that I have learned and adjusted to. I think I need to make a habit of every time I test shoot a new bow to start and finish with my main bow.
Thanks for the advice everyone, and if you have any more tips to give I feel like this thread will help out more reading this thread than just me. Which I hope it does.
Thanks,
Kyle
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Send me your address Kyle. I'll try to ship the DVD's in the next day or three. My name is on the covers, please be sure I get them back when your done. I will forget where I sent them, I'm relying on your memory kid-o!
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Thanks a bunch pearl drums. I won't forget where they came from. I sent you a PM.
Thanks
Kyle
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What has helped me is to develope a shot sequence. I try to do the same thing every shot like a doggone machine. It sounds silly but here is my shot: 1. find the tiny little spot that I want to hit. 2. tap shooting glove against my right thigh so fingers are down in it right. 3. cant bow and take a good grip with my forearm lined up with arrow. 4. Raise that canted bow with the nocked arrow pointed at my spot. 5. Draw to anchor and shoot while only focusing on that tiny spot. When my thumb knuckle fits under my cheek bone the arrow is gone. I can't think about too many things at one time. I check these things off my mental list and if my focus on the tiny little spot is good, that arrow won't be too far out of the kill zone. That is all I have to offer except for to END ON A GOOD NOTE in every practice session. You can really mess your own mind up with this archery stuff if you practice in a bad state of mind. End each session with a good group. I can only concentrate properly for up to maybe fifty shots - some days half that. After that I am just flinging arrows. If you start analyzing, correcting and overcorrecting problems that are showing up during times of lost concentration, you can ruin your shooting. Grapefruit size groups make meat Kyle. I think you are a good shot, you just have to break your shot down to some simple parts that you can repeat and keep on building your confidence. Everyone has there own style and you don't have to complare your shot to anyone else's. You have to find what works for you. This is a good thread and I hope some of you more accomplished target shooters will chime in.
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The last few days I have been practicing where in not paying much attention to anchoring or anything to do with perfect form. I've just been focusing on the target to where I feel like I'm trying to burn a hole through it with my eyes. Started ahooting good enough again that Ive been taking an old recurve out hunting. It's been raining and super misty and foggy so I cheated and used glass. But this morning I made a near perfect 18-20 yard shot on a spike. But for some reason no penetration as in a few inches. Which I'll start a post on that in the campfire section due to using a glass bow. But I feel like I'm finding something to work for me. I just need to perfect it. And made a good center punch on a chunk of ice cream bucket at 25 yards while walking out for lunch from looking for the deer. I think that I had bad shootings in my mind making me shoot bad. In a combinations from a flinch I developed from an aggressive compound and not shooting trad for a while. I think I'm starting to get that out of my head and my confidence back. Now I gotta work on having more good days so the target panic problem goes away all together. I think my whole problem is a confidence problem, low confidence = bad shooting, high confidence = good shooting.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
Kyle
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Good for you Kyle! I had a similar problem when I started shooting again after my surgery. It took a few days but now I'm back to stacking them in the kill zone! Keep practicing! I try to shoot about 5 dozen arrows a day at different ranges. Some known and some not.
Patrick
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The way I've been practicing is to throw the arrows to different places from the target and shoot from wherever the tip of the arrows land. I'll throw some close and some as far as I can get them. It seems to be helping. I've notice I definitely drae shorter with this methods that's been working. It's knocked me from a 26.5" draw to a 25".
Kyle
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The way I've been practicing is to throw the arrows to different places from the target and shoot from wherever the tip of the arrows land. I'll throw some close and some as far as I can get them. It seems to be helping. I've notice I definitely drae shorter with this methods that's been working. It's knocked me from a 26.5" draw to a 25".
Kyle
Thats an idea I hadn't thought about, I'm going to try that. My normal draw is 27 inches but when I shot my hunting bow, I draw closer to 26 inches.
Patrick
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Kyle you will learn in the DVD's why that type of shooting can really burn you or really make you feel like a champ. Consistency is key, more than form. Even if you short draw and snap shoot, you can be just fine if its the same exact process each time. When you start getting too many moving parts like you are, it only takes one to be off and your arrow is 12" left for the day. A consistent draw should be your focus. Try closing your eyes and releasing arrows at 3-4 yards, over and over and over until you draw the same each time. Draw elbow level, consistent anchor point and follow through is hard to beat.
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I dont know what anyone else has already said but here are my thoughts. If you have a round bale shoot at five yards. Draw up and make groups. You wont miss at five yards, get a rythm. Shoot hundreds of arrows like this. Just work on form at this range. Target panic is the fear of missing. You wont miss at this range. Find your rythm and work on form. Then slowly work backwards. And then the trick is to shoot the exact same way at five yards as you do at fifty. Same draw, same focus, same time, same follow through,. Evetything
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what Jayman says works for me,, as I go back if I start to miss,, I go close again,,