Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Urufu_Shinjiro on October 28, 2015, 10:34:59 am
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At the risk of opening up a can of worms, what are your thoughts on the Florida black bear hunt?
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It needed to be done! ;)
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Agreed. Really wish it hadn't been such a debacle though. Haven't decided if it was due to mismanagement or due to far more bears out there than anyone realized.
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it is because people see them as humanized bears, not bears. Bears are wild animals, they really do need some way of controlling them. They do benefit from a controlled population just like all wild animals.
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My personal 2 cents - we as humans have interfered with every natural process and have worked ourselves into an unnatural corner where predators and prey are out of balance because there are two many of us 2 leggeds that are afraid of the predator and eating the prey, so how do we fix that..... only time will truly tell.....
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My personal 2 cents - we as humans have interfered with every natural process and have worked ourselves into an unnatural corner where predators and prey are out of balance because there are two many of us 2 leggeds that are afraid of the predator and eating the prey, so how do we fix that..... only time will truly tell.....
Agreed 100%
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Jojo
I have always enjoyed hunting, live in bear hunting country, and have hunted bears in the past. Not so much anymore.
but I find this statement a little perplexing....
They do benefit from a controlled population just like all wild animals.
would you care to address how the bears "benefit" a little more?
willie
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It needed to be done, way too many bears down here. I quit hunting in Ocala National Forest because I was constantly running into bears and it wasn't legal then. We had them destroy our coolers with deer in them on our lease and the last time I had one follow me to my tree stand and had it's nose a foot from my feet till it smelled people and took off. It was a half click away from a 50 cal roundball for breakfast.
When you have a bear wander into down town Miami for the first time in over 150 years it was time to open the season again. I thought it was kinda ironic with all of the protest going on that some tourist was attacked by one in the parking lot of a hotel the morning of the first hunt.
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Jojo
I have always enjoyed hunting, live in bear hunting country, and have hunted bears in the past. Not so much anymore.
but I find this statement a little perplexing....
They do benefit from a controlled population just like all wild animals.
would you care to address how the bears "benefit" a little more?
willie
What happens when we have no population control over game? Simple, lets take rabbits. They reproduce like mad, until there are so many that the area can't support them, and then they starve. Deer, Same thing, they become a pest, they become dangerous to drivers. Bears, Well, they have a bad habit of eating whatever they can. Plants, Fruits, other animals, Trash, your garden. In lean times they will also suffer the same fate as anything else that needs food, except they can also kill you. Lets also remember that who else is paying to keep these areas wild? Hunting is the number on fund raiser of Environmental stewardship. Like it or not.
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When prey populations skyrocket so do predator populations. Predator hunting is a necessity to keep in check the population and make sure balance is kept (it does itself naturally but we mess up the equation) I see no issue with the bear hunt as long as they aren't over hunted. Other opinions may vary, and that's okay :)
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As Mullet and JoJo said, the population has exploded in recent years and the competition in the forests where they usually stay out of the way has gotten to the point where they are venturing into neighborhoods. It's not a human encroachment issue either since the bear encounters haven't been in new developments but some in neighborhoods that have been well established since the 60s or longer. I will say this though, it seems the hunt was bungled somewhere along the way. They issued about 3000 licenses with the intent to take around 250-300 (split up over several regions) bears over a week, they ended up reaching the limit in two days. The problem comes in that in some regions they exceeded their limit by as much as triple, several hunters came in with cubs and juveniles, and a number hunters came in with bears half a day after the hunt was called off. Now I know if a hunt is called off early folks aren't exactly out there checking their smartphones while stalking bear, but it still looks bad. I'm not sure if the mismanagement was on the part of officials, or if a bunch of inexperienced folks rushed out to get themselves a "bar", but with the media attention leading up to the hunt it kinda looked from the outside like it fulfilled the protesters expectations of a bunch of hillbillies runnin around shootin anything that moved....
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Sounds to me like they should have extended the hunt. If the bears were that easy to get there is way too many or they are too habituated.
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I tend to agree. There is no solid estimate of population right now. The last numbers were estimated to be about 3000 bears way back in 2002. Even those numbers were suspect because they didn't include private land. There's a survey underway right now and I'll be glad when it's done so we have a better idea of the true numbers right now.
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I can appreciate the usefulness to us humans that a control hunt will serve, but the question was asked about the benefits to the bears.
I live in a state with many bears and that state also has constitutional mandates to development (of) its resources by making them available for maximum use consistent with the public interest.and Fish, forests, wildlife, grasslands, and all other replenishable resources belonging to the State shall be utilized, developed, and maintained on the sustained yield principle, subject to preferences among beneficial uses. I appreciate these priorities ,as I have enjoyed the lifestyle and a successful livelihood in pursuit of some of these resources. However, the state mandate is in conflict with quite a bit of Federal management. Federal management in some areas defers to state management, while in others, is decidedly "preservationist".
A lot of tension between interests sometimes. Actually, there has been quite a discussion in state management, as to which critter should be giving top billing, When predator/prey species are considered. wolves and bears vs moose and caribou is all about whose ox is being gored.
but back to the black bears in Florida, how are they being benefited?
willie
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I would imagine that interactions with humans would be stressful. The less interaction they have with humans, the less chance of people killing them because "They were being attacked", or "they killed my livestock". Also, by keeping populations at a manageable level, the bears aren't going to have an elevated risk of having a bad year and losing a large portion of the population either starving to death, or moving into populated areas looking for food and getting shot and killed. Hit by cars, harassed by dogs.
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What I meant to imply with my last post was that they are currently being driving into neighborhoods because food in their natural areas are getting scarce due to the large bear population. Reduce the population some and the resources in the forests they prefer will be plentiful again. Not to mention they may avoid a more severe backlash from increased maulings...
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I agree with your sentiment but it sounds like you're saying that we can save them from starving etc. by killing them. I suppose one might be a better death. The fact remains that as long as humans are involved the bears will come out second best. Nothing we can do about that. It will sort itself out when humans extinct themselves.
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please understand that my asking that question was playing a bit of the devils advocate, and If some of my points of view seem contrary, I wish it to be known that I am questioning what seems (to me anyways) to be questionable ideas, and most assuredly not directed personally and any of the esteemed forumites voicing their opposing views.
That said, some of the ideas I have heard presented, justifying the hunt, are what I would call the "redneck knee jerk" retorts to the "bleeding hearts" emo bs. By that I mean, a little more thoughtfulness about the complexities of co-existing with our fellow species would be useful.
Sorry Urufu, but this subject is a can of worms whether we like it or not.
Jo jo. I am not to convinced. I am not a wayward yearling bear, but I could imagine that getting flattened by a dodge would be just as stressful as being gobbled by a gator. The points of the arguments that keeps me wondering is,..
If we often find the antis views a bit hard to swallow because of their propensity to worship critters and trees and such, are we not just as radical when we say "we neeed to kill you for your own good"
willie
btw, do bears eat wild pigs and those nasty dillas in florida?
DC- you posted while I was composing, but I gotta ask, do you really think that that bears will be here after we are gone?
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A good discussion is always welcomed with me. It does seem like I am saying that we will save them by killing them. The truth of the matter is that it is the bears will be better off if their numbers aren't allowed to get too large. There is the public to fear. How many kids would have to be dragged from tents before people really start to freak out? My thought is keep the population in control so they don't take to dragging kids off in the night. Avoid the knee jerk reactions from the public that would then demand action be taken, and the offending bear (or several if they can't find the ONE) killed anyway.
I don't hunt bears. They remind me a bit too much of dogs to be able to shoot them. I haven't shot an animal for about 10 years.
If I was a burden on society, or say I was living off of stealing from others or vandalizing, terrorizing or some other way that society deems uncivilized I would be at the least incarcerated. If I were a danger to society, and couldn't be swayed from my ways, then it very well could be the best thing to take me out to the woods and put me down.
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I guess we need to separate the occasional reaction from a surprised human (who may have in some unintentional way encouraged a bear to be somewhere he is not wanted), and dragging kiddies out of tents scenario.
When in their territory, take precautions just like you would on the wrong side of town. And when in yours, do what you can to not attract them,
I find that bears by nature are usually reclusive. Its the park thing where the "kids getting dragged out of tents" happens. Some how the managers want to believe that they can preserve the bears from us humans, and create a park where we can go see the bears, and all should work out well, except this is a bit much for a bear to actually understand.
They don't need to be put down because they never entered into the social contract. I wish more people could accept the world they live in for what it is, rather than expecting someone else to change it to fit their comfort.
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I am all for letting animals run wild. If you get eaten by a bear because you didn't take precautions that is on you. But sadly, when a bear won't stop taking advantage of stupid humans there is only one thing that is gonna happen, and it never ends good for the bear.
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??? I best stay out of this one. Thanks for playing nice guys. ;) Pappy
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??? I best stay out of this one. Thanks for playing nice guys. ;) Pappy
Opinions are like... Well, we all know. I am no more right than anyone else. No need to get upset that someone doesn't agree with me. I'm married, I'm used to it >:D
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DC- you posted while I was composing, but I gotta ask, do you really think that that bears will be here after we are gone?
Obviously that depends on the nature of our leaving but yeah I do. Look how life has bounced back at Chernobyl. To many of anything is a bad thing and the worst is us. Because we are dominant everything has to make room for us. That's not going to change. Mother Nature had established a very workable system and then we came along and messed it up.
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Yea, the Bears will be drinking out of the same ditch the gators are swimming in when we're gone.
The Vegan Secretary at work went on a rant today about the hunt and I enjoy messing with her. She was moaning about the poor baby bears that don't have a Momma, now. I told her if they let you take the Mom and the cubs the quota would have been filled quicker and stopping the hunt faster, of course, I was just kidding. Almost all of the cubs this time of year are weaned and can survive on their own unless a Panther or Bear Boar eats them.
And from what I read the hunt was stopped on Sunday, the second day at 298 bears checked in with a quota limit goal of 325 bears that had to be at least 100#, so I don't know how anybody could justify at the Check Station a cub was a 100#. The FWC has no problem writing a citation down here.
And as far as benefiting the bear, maybe now when some see a human he will run instead of seeing if you have a cookie. My hunt buddy lives in Ocala Nat. Forest and it was nothing to be watching TV and look up to see a couple of bears with their noses pressed to the glass sliding doors looking for food.
I talked to several Biologist with the FWC ad they said two years ago there was no place to drop nuisance bears, every national forest in this state was full. The shortness of this hunt proved that, no bait allowed or dogs, just spot and stalk.
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Jo Jo
and it never ends good for the bear
sad but true
DC
Mother nature still has a very workable system, and once we are gone, I think our passing will seem like just another blip on the radar
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And willie you asked what these Bears eat down here. Their primary food this time of year is acorns in the Water Oak trees. They will stand on 4" limbs and pull and break the tops over to eat the acorns. These trees average around 50' high and when they get through it looks like a tornado passed over. And they also love Palmetto Berries if they can beat the Day Labor people and Migrant workers to them since they are wiping the berries out for the price of beer for cancer cures. Then they move on to your poodle and garbage can, your bag of dog food after they rip your garage door open to get it and I am pretty sure this year alone 4 ladies were attacked in separate incidents on jogging trails. On the hunting lease I was on we had to switch to expensive soy beans in feeders because if you ran corn your feeder was gone the next day.
At the Florida State TBOF shoot last year a Sow and two cubs destroyed our cook area and turned over and scattered every garbage can in the camping area. There are so many of them I don't think they have the food resources with out moving into the residential areas to survive. Unfortunately and I'm like the bears, I wish all of you guys would quit moving here and then there would be more habitat for them to live in. The area around Disney was prime Bear country in the 60's and 70's when old Walt started bulldozing and filling in swamps. But, hey, not much you can do about it now but try to control both populations.