Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: riverrat on November 07, 2015, 05:58:32 pm
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received a pretty straight stave from a very good bowyer recently.had a bend in the bottom half of log. so i found a way to keep a bow in there that was straight . 53 inches. maybe 1 3/4 or 1 1/2 at least wide. well ruffed it out. made nocks top and bottom. my luck it gets a crack in bottom nock dead center going up 1 inch past into bow. so i cut off 2 inches just to be sure that crack is history. my mistake. should of let it acclimatize to my mostly humid wet enviroment. but o.k. its now ruffed out 51 1/2 inches long. 1 1/2 inches wide at the widest. i want no less than 40 pounds at 26 inches {ohio hunting laws} but id like 50 pounds at that same draw.with that said its a work in process. ive heard this cant be done with this kind of wood. ;) heres the kicker. hey, what kind of wood is this? anybody take a guess? heres some pics. back, belly, side. ill post pics as this is a pretty easy bow to build as i go.i know the limbs look thin. im telling you it barely bends right now. im thinking 50 pounds at 26 inches is as easy as pie to get.i need to remake the bottom nock now that the crack is history and floor tiller to brace. any guesses? Tony
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belly, side. back in that order.
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This should be interesting. ;)
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Was it dry when you got it?
How about maple?
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very dry. does kinda look like maple.but nope :) but your on a good track. i removed what was left of the bark and theres my back . Tony
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It's hard to tell from the pics, but my guess is elm.
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Ocean Spray, just to get it out of the way :)
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Hickory?
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when its done, when i have pics of tiller at full draw, and use my new scale to weight it at 26 in. of draw ill tell ya. your all wrong however.lol Tony p.s. man love the color of that wood. almost like willow.also ill post some closer pics too. the nocks are pretty nice looking.
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nocks ;top nock. made to resemble a flame. after bow is finished ill give a run down on everything and why it was made that way.first pic.back view of tip/nock. second pic belly view of top nock, 3rd pic.back view of bottom nock. 4th pic belly view of bottom nock. bottom nock is a circle, or round for a reason.Tony
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American hornbeam. ;)
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o.k. got it floor tillered to brace.but. i have a few pin knots close to the edges. im concerned they may cause tiny tiny cracks eventualy. so, i was thinking of scalloping the edges anyhow. might as well place them strategically to rid said knots Tony
o.k. opposite sides of each limb had a couple of those near the edge. scallops did the trick!
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scallops did the trick on them pin knots :) Tony
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full view of bow how its starting to look.Tony
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She's coming along nicely, Tony. I love the "flame" nock on the top. The scallops look cool and have served a purpose but be sure to round those edges.
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i sure will Pat.going to scrape them round, grease and burnish. i have to work the next two days. sooo, might have to let it rest a few days. but come wensday back at it on the tiller board . :) Tony
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heres a clue. getting ready to put it up for a few days, i lightly sanded everything nice and smooth. coated it then rubbed in some deer fat.didnt heat it or anything, it soaks it up a bit, so i did it again and burnished it all over with a deer tine.the feel of it is somthing simular to cedar.the belly has been changing colors since i greased it and burnished it. pretty close to the color on the back now.Tony
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I was going to say elm looking at the grain in outside light. But reading about it soaking up grease and feeling like cedar, it sounds like softer wood. The grain is a hardwood grain. I dunno -- some wild guesses here.....butternut? Hard to imagine it as a bow. Black walnut? But I don't think the sapwood would ever match the heartwood. No idea.
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last clue, most experienced bowyers on here , and a few others including myself in the past have tossed this wood out as shavings :)
pretty good answer there about looking like hardwood grain but feeling like cedar. its not that soft. but it has that dull dry feeling to it. and it will scratch easily compared to its later stages :) Tony
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Sassafras?
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I thought English walnut, which is lighter and softer than black walnut. Also, thought maybe light colored BL, but it usually feels hard in the hand, like it rings when you knock on it.
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Basswood :-\
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Jus kiddin ;D
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Blue Beech
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Really, INFI
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Some type of locust?
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White Oak...
Don
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"...will scratch easily compared to its later stages...." must be a sapwood, but of some common bow wood normally used for its heart wood. So is that like osage or black locust? :-\
or.......it's petrified wood
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I'm not really interested in what type of wood it is till I see it bend :)
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ding ding ding and theres a winner mr.Plan B!!!!!! Osage sapwood bow it is. not even a smidgen of heartwood! Tony
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oh its bending :) Tony
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Yellow Poplar
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never mind. missed the answer on the last page :-[
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Dingaling PlanB? :laugh:
So Tony, really interesting. is the back made of the wood directly under the bark, like it would be on a whitewood stave, or did you chase a ring even though it's a sapwood back?
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I sent that stave to Tony a week or so ago. I cut it back in 1993 or '94 if I remember correctly. It was a very tall(10'+) growing up through a large shrub in a yard. The only heartwood was about 1/2" in diameter. I had scraped the bark off but left some of the cambium on it. I made one bow about a year or 2 after cutting it and the other half has been in my basement shop since. If you look at the pics of the nocks I think you can still see some of the cambium on one of them.
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just scraped off that cambium layer and theres the back . like a white wood bow. there was a little heartwood at the core but as i tillered it went gone. just a all sapwood bow now. Tony
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thinking on toasting the belly. ive made a yellow locust bow mostly sapwood. and a all sapwood bl. bow before. but never a all sapwood osage bow. dont know what to expect. whats capable. im gonna toast the belly since im making it like any white wood bow.besides, from what ive read on here, i remember something about native Americans heated the bow to help it bend. maybe that meant to straighten out a twist or something, or maybe to just plain help it to bend. also read they did it to make the bow stronger. hmmm, sounds like toasting to me :) so gonna give it a try.ive also read that greasing the bow and heating it helps it bend. o.k. sold myself on that whole concept.lol Tony
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Looks like black locust to me.
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thinking on toasting the belly. ive made a yellow locust bow mostly sapwood. and a all sapwood bl. bow before. but never a all sapwood osage bow. dont know what to expect. whats capable. im gonna toast the belly since im making it like any white wood bow.besides, from what ive read on here, i remember something about native Americans heated the bow to help it bend. maybe that meant to straighten out a twist or something, or maybe to just plain help it to bend. also read they did it to make the bow stronger. hmmm, sounds like toasting to me :) so gonna give it a try.ive also read that greasing the bow and heating it helps it bend. o.k. sold myself on that whole concept.lol Tony
You guys sure have suck me in to this post... :) ;)
Sure would like to see some more pic's of your progress??
DBar
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will do in the morning. tonight i wanted to see how close to brace i was {i want a 4 3/4 -5 inch brace higth}. i dont want to over stress it. well at 3 1/2 inches its a tad over 40 pounds acording to my 5 dollar walmart fish scale.so some more belly scraping in the morning and then try again.Tony
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its not black locust. its osage sapwood. black locust sapwood has a hard/heavier feel to it. id know black locust blind folded. its my favorite bow wood.even the sapwood.lol Tony
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I'm really looking forward to seeing this one, too. :)
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o.k. on the tiller board today. its bending very evenly almost to brace. still have about 1/2-1 in. to go. on the tiller stick if you run a string from nock to nock so you have a straight line its 4 in. from belly to that string. so i need 1/2 to 1 in. yet. if you use that scale in the pic. it says 48 lbs. at that distance. no set when you take it off the tiller stick.Tony
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bow is tilted slightly and camerra angle is funny to fit it in. if you stand dead center in front or behind bow both limbs look equal.Tony
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for its small size, and the limb thickness im sure some of you all are going to think its a kids bow lol. oh but itll be a 45 - 50 pound meat provider. :) Tony
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this is a slightly different take on flat belly tillering. i call it lensticular tillering. yes its flat down the center but a little ways on the edges its tillered to take off the edges from the belly to almost the back. so they almost meet up. not quite or it would splinter, i know from doing this, but you can get it pretty close to make your limbs weight less than if it was a perfect flat tiller. i know i know, osage sapwood dont make a bow and theres no other tillering that will work other than flat. lmbo. stay tuned. ;) Tony
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45 lbs. at brace . when unstrung about 1/2 in. follow. if left for a hour it goes away. so i think ill shoot for 45 at 24 inches. to be safe.from this point forward its going to be slow going, shave a little, check tiller, check weight, shave a little , check tiller, check weight move tiller string to next notch, shave a ...Tony
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left limb needs shaved from mid handle area to end of first scallop to the left. just a tad needs taken off to make it perfect. then back to it.Anyone else see anything else? had to put together a string for it. so it took a minute. i like to wax /fat it as i make it then let it set under tension awhile after its made to stretch it far as it will go. {hemp} i used 5 strands of the .2 polished hemp string from walmarts. twisted to right, then doubled over, twisted to left., 10 pounds per strand doubled over is what ive always used. notice its not realy big diam. it dont need to be. thanks Tony
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17 inches of draw. 45 lbs. right limb in pic looks like it needs a little shaving mid limb.
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at 18 inches its perfect, 47 lbs. but after i take it off its now got that 1 inch of follow. so im going to let it set a little to see how much goes away.once i get it to 20 in. at 45 lbs if it keeps up with the 1 inch of set im going to heat bend the tips back a tad. Tony
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At 51" t/t, flipping the tips would help lengthen the draw without stacking. She's looking good, Tony. 8)
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thanks Pat. 20 inches :) and 45 lbs.Tony wow just looked at that . pretty much dead on!
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o.k. ive done my best. im going to settle for 45 lbs at 22 inches. it is going to develope a tad of set. not much a inch. but im afraid if i push it any harder it will start taking a lot of set.i didnt get a 53 inch bow 1 1/2 in. wide 26 in. draw with 50 pounds of weight like i started out to do. what i did get is a 50 1/2 inch bow 1 1/2 in. wide at its widest, 45 pounds at 22 inches. so i failed. hmfff. but on the bright side. i got a sweeet bow. made of something considered not bow wood :) that does draw 45 lbs so is a legal hunting bow here in Ohio. :) o.k. i put osage sapwood about the same place as "bow wood" as white ash. made simular bows in the past simular sized and weight to draw with simular results.sure is pretty.sooo, as for the flame nock on top.....that flame represents the passion that burns in all of us for the art of making primitive bows,arrows, and primitive archery in general. that bottom nock thats round. it aint perfect round. nothings perfect. but a circle goes round infinitely.therein lays that flame of passion forever.the scallops helped get rid of the pin knots. but i was thinkin on them anyways. here in this once black swamp region of Ohio im in and in the surrounding great lakes region a number of the Native tribes had bows that werent quite long with scallops.so its fitting for this place i live.why make it of osage sapwood.? why climb a mountain? why skydive? why anything? because its a challenge.if this bow was mt everest, i didnt reach the peak, but damn as i look down i know im up there a ways :) and for now on, no one can say, osage sapwood dont work, cant make a bow, you have to remove all of it, ect. lol i like to think along this idea or mind set. if its wood, it will bend. some better than others, but it will bend! keep em bent! Tony
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doing some decorating.so heres a picture of that. went out and shot it this morning. not very far across the back yard with a blunt arrow. shot it at a cardboard 24 pk. box from mountain dew loaded with tore up cardboard. hits dead on every time with a few heavier spined arrows that dont work well with my elm bow. so now i have a blunt and two hunting arrows that shoot from it fine. now to make some more arrows,and a quiver.oh yea i also kicked back the tips some like Pat sugested and tillered just a little more. still drawing 45 lbs at 22 inches.also painted the edges of the scallops black. painted both tips to where the scallops start red on the back and sides.i really wanted to go out and shoot the heck out of it today. but wind machine cranking up crazy gusts today. maybe in a couple days when im off again.Tony
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Very cool Tony, I dig the alternating scallops on each limb.
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Came out real nice. I'm fond of that style of bow and that one you just finished looks great, nicely done Tony.
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I like it a lot, too. Looking forward to seeing it outside in some good light.
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i sure plan on it. it might be a couple days though. itll be dark when i go to work. dark when i get home. but when monday gets here.... --)- thanks everyone. Tony
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o.k. outside pics. first pic. drawn to 21 in. i have that arrow marked at 22 inches.2nd pic nocking arrow.3rd pic. side view with follow. 4th pic. back view. Tony
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see all the signs and the tellegraph pole leaning in picture? 50 plus winds the last 3 days or so. so glad its decent out.Tony