Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ryan C on December 18, 2015, 07:38:04 pm
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/jreefer454/597B93C8-7179-4665-B2D0-302692194CB5_zpsasbdekve.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/jreefer454/media/597B93C8-7179-4665-B2D0-302692194CB5_zpsasbdekve.jpg.html)(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/jreefer454/AC61EED7-7F83-4C0B-9267-B716A45DC213_zpsvhavvigk.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/jreefer454/media/AC61EED7-7F83-4C0B-9267-B716A45DC213_zpsvhavvigk.jpg.html)(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/jreefer454/00937F0F-895C-4982-88BD-5CB98C5849BB_zpsnuazr6ln.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/jreefer454/media/00937F0F-895C-4982-88BD-5CB98C5849BB_zpsnuazr6ln.jpg.html)
Its hard to tell if my tiller is good because of the kink on the limb. Its pulling 40 @20 right now. What do you guys think?
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Ryan,
Please take my comments with a grain of salt......I'm not too good at giving advice.......but I think your right limb is very stiff mid limb and out. Do you have a caul and a heat gun to take that kink out?
DBar...
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The right limb is hinging right at the edge of that white cabinet, like dbar said scrape from there out till you get a even bend going and don't pull it that far till the tiller is straightened out get a six inch straight stick to check the bend
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I didn't think it was a hinge just that kink is there. Its plenty thick in that area.
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As close as that kink is to the fade just work on the limb past the kink. No need to straighten it out IMO. Work the limbs into the fades and handle last and you will be fine.
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Ryan, I'd take that kink out. Heat gun 5-10 min would do the trick.
You could leave it as it, and it would be fine, just my 2 cents.
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I'm with Bub - - Bob.
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I would also heat some reflex in also.
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Yes Ryan wizardgoat is right.Even up those limbs by taking the kink out.Just my two cents too,but know I'm right....lol.
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Two ways to go and two schools of thought. I would go with the caul and heat gun like Bill suggested - it makes the tillering easier. Another way is to just make a bow out of it - keep the limbs bending evenly, tiller it on out and not worry that it doesn't look like picture perfect tiller. A kinky stave isn't going to look like everyone's idea of a perfect bending limb, but if it shoots good, feels good in the hand, and takes little set, then it is a good bow. I have some funny looking sticks that are real good performers. All that babbling aside, I would make my tillering simpler and heat all the rollercoasters out of it that I could.
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That is a hinge on the right. Your bow has already taken set you will find later. That kink is all that is allowing your tip to get down that low right now. Put a bold pencil line 4" past that kink and don't touch it until the rest of that limb catches up.
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Ryan, I disagree with these guys. I don't want to make a concrete judgement without seeing a full length picture of the side view of the bow unstrung, but I don't know how folks can call a natural kink, hump, small area of deflex, or whatever we choose to call it, a hinge... because it's not.
Besides the natural hump near the handle, another thing that is trying to deceive us and make us believe there IS a hinge is that after the hump, for a large portion of the limb, it's naturally reflexed(unstrung)... so, relative to the hump,(and the other limb) it will appear stiffer throughout the whole process, like it's not flexing enough, when in fact it IS. In other words, it may 'appear' stiff, but not be 'acting' stiff.
When we judge a limb of character, we need to compare it in whole and in part, relative to its unstrung profile... not to other bows, not to the other limb, and not to the perfectly arcing limb in our mind's eye.
Check, double, and triple check that your thickness taper is gradual and accurate... and you probably won't get into too much trouble.
It can also help to take a picture of the suspect limb unstrung, braced, and partially drawn, and lay them over top of, or near to, one another on your computer. Or actually trace the limb on butcher's paper and hang it behind the bow for reference.
It's hard to tell in pictures, it would be better to see it in person, but I wouldn't be surprised if that limb on the right is working just the way I'd want it to. I held a blank piece of paper over that limb in the first picture and traced it with a pencil, then held the tracing over the same limb in the second picture, and it shows the whole limb is flexing more in the second picture than the first. Like I said, hard to tell from here, but from what I can make out, I think you're doing pretty good so far.
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Here's a simple little tool I made for a quick check of the limb taper.
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Disagree all ya want weather that's a hinge, the fact is that is about the only spot where the limb is working plain and simple
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I see my project for the morning. Thanks DWS
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Yep. Unbraced profile will tell you if an area is working more than it should. Set is the best indicator. You wouldn't be wrong to tiller it on out just like your going. The limbs may be working correctly. For character bows I have to go by how it feels in the hand. I don't think anyone is wrong in the above posts - it is just two different schools of thought on tillering. You can iron out every imperfection with enough time, heat, clamping, and correcting, till it looks like a store bought fiberglass bow or you can let the stave tell you what kind of bow it can be without all that.... It's your bow and you know what you see in your mind's eye.
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Just slide it down the limb and watch the dial. I don't concern myself with the actual thickness or the numbers on the dial, I just watch that the dial ONLY turns counterclockwise as the limb tapers down, and that it does so gradually.
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I like that little tool, especially for the laminated board bows.
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"Disagree all ya want weather that's a hinge, the fact is that is about the only spot where the limb is working plain and simple"
Well I have to disagree, respectfully, because I see what it's doing. I don't think the inner limb is hinging, and I don't think it's the only spot the limb is working, because the whole limb changed shape from one picture to the next.... not a lot, but it isn't drawn very far yet either.
Don't take my word for it, get out a blank piece of paper, trace it, and see for yourself.
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Badger, yeah, me too. You can't take it too 'literally' as it travels over a stave's little knots and other irregularities, but it still gives you a good idea of what's going on overall.
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This bow isn't really a character bow from the pics he posted it has one spot, it is really a pretty straight forward stave, I don't know but one thing, read the responses and go with the answer you want its your bow
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Thanks for the replies everybody. I'll mess with it when I get home. Maybe I'll try the tool dances woth squirrels posted.
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Here's one for gauging bend. It can be of help on tricky staves such as yours, Ryan... to verify if we're seeing what we think we're seeing... or not seeing. This one is aluminum, but it could just as easily be made from a chunk of scrap wood. It can be used to compare the amount of bend in an area relative to how it sits at brace, how it acts at lesser or greater length of draw... or used to compare different areas of a limb, one limb to the other, etc.
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DWS.....That's what I use for spining arrows.Got the how to from a book.Good accurate spiner too.Metal workers use them to measure inside circumference.Can't think of the name of them right now.Really using your eye on the bending can show you what it needs.
I've made the bows too like H Rhodes is talking about.I'm not going to comment any more because I don't have that bow in front of me.He said it's thicker at the so called hinge.
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if you have a bow that is thicker at the so called hinge,, then the wood around that is having to do more work,, and you are likely to really make a hinge,, really easy to do when you have a stiff spot that is reflexed,, if you take off too much wood( make it thinner than the wood around it to even the bend to your eye,) it will over stress the reflexed part of the bow,,
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Wow DWS you've got some nice tools.....but all I ever use is a "eye ball".... :) ;)
DBar
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Got the first limb heated into reflex. Got a bunch of checks on the limb but thats happened with all Osage I've heated.
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Ryan, I would have loved to have been there to watch you because I've heard others say the same thing and it baffles me. I've never had a single limb check as I was heat correcting it. Not one. I wonder what we're doing differently.
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I shouldn't have said that... I probably just jinxed myself :o
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it probably has to do with the humidity you are working in,,
or how dry the wood is to start with,,
or both,, for example if you are working outside and it is humid,, then you bring what you are workin on inside and it is winter and dry because of the heat on inside,, you gonna get a check :)
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Stave is 2 years old I'm working in my basement which is always 50-60 relative humidity. The checks started about 15 minutes into the heating.
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How long has the bark and sapwood been removed? How long has it been reduced in size? Has it been in the basement the entire time? Do you keep the heat gun moving or hold it in one place for a while? Maybe your gun is a lot hotter than mine?
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I got the stave from pine hollow. The bark ands sapwood was removed when I got it. I keep my gun moving and it goes up to 1000 degrees Fahrenheit
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/jreefer454/5A2ACDA6-935C-479C-8A80-69E28660345A_zpsjyrfzxcy.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/jreefer454/media/5A2ACDA6-935C-479C-8A80-69E28660345A_zpsjyrfzxcy.jpg.html)looks a little better now. I'll give it a week or so to rehydrate.
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Looks good, but ya took all the fun out of it. ;)
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I most times take the kinks out if I can but if not I watch the top of the limb to see that it is moving especially if it has reflex and try and keep the tapper even, if you just watch the belly it will look flat on reflexed areas and hinged on deflexed areas. I also flip it regularly and look at it from both sides, sometimes that will give you a better idea on what it is really doing. real easy to get fooled when they have kinks/dips and dives in them. Looks better now that you have straightened it. :)
Pappy
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I am thinking of a photo I've seen.
It is a photo of a bow made by Chet Stevenson where both limbs literally looked like waves coming into the seashore. The bow was a beautifully tillered selfbow...a beautiful character bow.
I'm so glad he left the whoopty do's in.
Kinks should bend just as much as the rest of the limb.
Assessing the tiller of a character bow is difficult because the pleasing tiller picture we like to see is not always the best tiller for the bow.
Looking at the first picture my initial impression, Ryan, was that the right limbs needs to bend more mid limb on. Often with character bows one has to look at both sides of the draw.
Jawge