Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowEd on December 20, 2015, 11:27:13 am
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I'm bound and determined to make a cedar bow.Laminated.Stiff handled with an D/R profile from the handle.Backed with 1/8" thick hickory.Not straight line tapered in width from the fades I hope but to have levers and be more parallel limbs.Rough out the bow.Leaving square things square and dead flat.Taper my working limb thickness into thirds starting at 1/2" thick at fades.Steam in my deflex on Dean Torges D/R form.His form is adjustable.About 2"to 3" of reflex which I'll lose through tillering.Let cool and dry.Then clamp on my backing on the same form to get my reflex.Bet I'll have to get the heat gun out maybe.I'll try to use half a sapling for a backer if not edge grain hickory will have to work with that being tapered too because of the parallel limbs.My plans this time is to take a 16" to 18" log that's pretty clean on 1 side.Have Sam the Amish crosscut the middle 2" of the log.Maybe off to one side a bit.I'll see.Then cut out the remaining lumber into flat grain 2" boards.I'll use the edge grain for the bow.Should work.The limbs will start out 2" wide too.Am I forgetting anything?
Deans' form can be for hunting bows and target bows.The difference is the reflex is applied about 3" closer to the fades.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1059_zpsvubmfemo.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1059_zpsvubmfemo.jpg.html)
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I can remember doing bamboo backed hickory bows on this form and the amount of reflex glued in would leave about half after coming off the form.Then I'll lose some through tillering.So I'll have to gauge all of that.My friend Grant had this form he picked up at the first Mo Jam I think.
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OK.I'll give it 4" tip reflex past back of handle hoping to keep 2" through glue up.That'll depend if my thickness tapering is good.After that I'll lose half or more again through tillering leaving with about 1/2" to an 1" of reflex.I can live with that.These are what I call a kit bow.Kind of a predetermined tiller etc.
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ok looks good,, I am sure it will work out well for you ,, :)
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How long will this bow be? What draw weight?
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My Cedar obsession ended up in an explosion and I do mean explosion........sounds like your right track...
DBar
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Yep Badger I know that's an important couple of questions.Sorry I left that out.I'd like to say 64" .52#@ 28",but the working length on this type bow might be limited with that length for good success.Soooooo Deans' form will accomadate a 68" bow and that's what I'm gonna do....I think....lol.
I appreciate the input even though I'm gonna hear things that I don't want to hear...ha ha.
DanznBar...I know what you mean man.Been through that before too.It was'nt a mild little tick...It was a big BANG!!!!! saying I fold....lol.
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I made a selfbow ceder bow about 20 years ago. 64" ntn 55#@26"
I went through that stage where I had to build bow's out of anything and everything I could fine,buy, and yes I even took a few downed osage logs. 21
I look back now and thing why.
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That's encouarging.Was it a stiff handled bow?To me osage is the easiest wood to make a bow out of because it is so forgiving.Making bows out of other woods is more of a challenge learning it's plus and minus characteristics and putting them to use in different designs.
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I had that obsession once a long time ago, but got over it after the 4th explosion. ;) ;D ;D It can be done for sure,seen some on here, I just couldn't pull it off. :-[ Good luck with it and looking forward to seeing how it turns out, should make a beautiful bow. :)
Pappy
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Well I guess I'll have to go through that too Pappy.Going to the sawmill today to cut the log up.Robin might go along to take pics.I'l post a few then.Even though most on here know what's going on but hav'nt seen a mill before.I'd like to get as much good straight edge grain as I can.
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Never tried it with backing, all my experience is self bow. Again good luck. :)
Pappy
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I was told by a wise trucker that the smaller branch wood is all that's worth using. Said trucker also sent me some branch billets and the weight and hardness of them is 5x what I've handled in trunk wood, almost yew like. It actually feels like I have a shot with these sticks.
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Yes I've heard that before about the comparisons.Backing might be the difference to make it work for me with the trunk wood and this design.
Your talking branch cedar?From where????,and you backing it with air?
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Sometimes it is not so much a matter of being forgiving as much as it is just making sure you have enough wood. ERC is very light you don't have all that much wood to work with unless you go considerably wider.
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I also have the bug, I am working on a sinew backed juniper (virginanas) right now.
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Well we milled the trunk.To me the log turned out to be useful for boards,boxes,and benches.From making boxes from logs in the past I thought maybe there was a good chance of getting some straight edge grain 2" square pieces.Not so.It was foggy here toady.Kind of unusual for december 22.Sams' mill is about 10 miles from me here.There is another too but I'm not familiar with those people.I did'nt resize these pics.Hoping photobucket does that through the transference.
Fog
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/IMG_5037_zpsnjtel53e.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/IMG_5037_zpsnjtel53e.jpg.html)
Logs to mill.He does mostly pallet wood cutting of oaks,cottonwoods,and really any kind of tree through there.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/IMG_4995_zpsiq3sdrdn.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/IMG_4995_zpsiq3sdrdn.jpg.html)
Cutting the log here.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/IMG_5001_zpsz0rkqcnc.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/IMG_5001_zpsz0rkqcnc.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/IMG_5003_zpsoxz1lbsx.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/IMG_5003_zpsoxz1lbsx.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/IMG_5006_zpsv8nrd7bi.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/IMG_5006_zpsv8nrd7bi.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/IMG_5010_zpszuiupp3i.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/IMG_5010_zpszuiupp3i.jpg.html)
Well it did'nt take all that much of my time so to me it was'nt a waste.Thinking now I should take this branch of cedar I've got decrown it.Cut it in half.Splice it in the middle into a deflex handle.Should work as a deflex/reflex bow if it don't blow.Pretty sure I can do it.Like they say nothing ventured nothing gained.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1028_zpscokjtrfp.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1028_zpscokjtrfp.jpg.html)
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Hope yours works Aaron.Good luck.I gave my previous cedar bow about 6" of reflex sinewing in a D/R design and she blew delaminating the top ring.
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Yep Steve.With this cedar I'll have to pay very close attention to the mass weight formula.Starting out wide enough to begin with.
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Only times Ive found cedar clear enough for a bow, especially a selfbow, is to find two trunk growing right up against each other so there's no branches. Clean staves exist, but you gotta know where to look. Also out East (don't know where you are but I'm in NY) most of the cedar is in the woods, so it's growing ridiculously slow, and a lot of it is in hardwood forests where it's overtopped and waiting to die. I would suspect that cedar growing out in a field or something would grow fast and be even lighter.
I've had some luck finding clear cedar in board form. Let the other guy mill 1000bdft, then just buy the one clean board. For most uses other than bows they don't care about the knots one bit, so there's minimal competition for buying the clean boards.
Cheers.
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From Rolf in the Woods, by Ernest Thompson Seton:
"From the dry store hole under the rock, he produced a piece of common red cedar. Some use hickory; it is less liable to break and will stand more abuse, but it has not the sharp, clean action of cedar. The latter will send the arrow much farther, and so swiftly does it leave the string that it baffles the eye. But the cedar bow must be cared for like a delicate machine; overstring it, and it breaks; twang it without an arrow, and it sunders the cords; scratch it, and it may splinter; wet it, and it is dead; let it lie on the ground, even, and it is weakened. But guard it and it will serve you as a matchless servant, and as can no other timber in these woods"
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Dang PatM that almost inspires me to try another ERC, I said almost ;) ;D Thanks for sharing that. :)
Pappy
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Dang PatM that almost inspires me to try another ERC, I said almost ;) ;D Thanks for sharing that. :)
Pappy
Very rare that an author can write about our subject in a way that we "get". That paragraph puts the ERC bow in perfect context.
This book was written about 90 years ago.
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Soooooo, its just like the all the others? Other than osage. Got it!
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Yep Little Ben and thanks.I realize the places to look and all,and the shortcuts to the woodsmith store to get a board but I'll be pateint bang my head against the wall breaking them.Let the obsession rest but still hold the grudge to try again later.
Pat M...Cool....That pretty much sums her up.Some people can put into words their feelings better than others.Bet he is a romeo....lol.Pretty much describes a finicky bow wood if you ask me too.Dents like yew but is'nt as elastic.Knew that getting into this but want to see these snappy limbs work like they say.
I hav'nt broke one in a while Pappy I'll get around to it.
Pearly...We can be assured you can't throw a cedar bow out of the tree stand to get down....heh.
Think I'll make that curved piece of cedar a little at a time over months while making other bows in between then when she blows it won't piss me off quite so bad.The feeling of construction time won't be so current.I have learned to shrug my shoulders and move on though.Not making a big deal out of it.I want at least a 48# bow.48#@ 28" has a nice ring to it.Preferably 52# though.