Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: nsherve on January 20, 2016, 06:13:30 am
-
Have any of you tried boiling a green stave in oil? Not necessarily boiling, but submerging it in hot oil...just to see what happens. If you have, what kind of oil did you use, and what were the results? That question popped into my mind just a minute ago. I may try it when I get home from work. I work overseas, so it'll be a few months before I get home.
I have posted on here before, and am still very new to making a bow. The last time I was home, I made my first bow (which seems fine).
Thanks for any responses.
Nate
I've also had an idea about heat treating a bow by covering it with clay soil over a fire... any thoughts?
-
Um, It sounds a bit strange, like tempering a blade, but, feel free to try
-
If you intention is to heat treat the bow this way you have to remember that heat treating a bow is a one sided operation. You want the belly hot and the back should stay cold.
-
Have any of you tried boiling a green stave in oil? Not necessarily boiling, but submerging it in hot oil...just to see what happens. If you have, what kind of oil did you use, and what were the results? That question popped into my mind just a minute ago. I may try it when I get home from work. I work overseas, so it'll be a few months before I get home.
I have posted on here before, and am still very new to making a bow. The last time I was home, I made my first bow (which seems fine).
Thanks for any responses.
Nate
I've also had an idea about heat treating a bow by covering it with clay soil over a fire... any thoughts?
the technique is used to temper the extremely well crafted katanas of the samurai. I have a friend in Japan who's taken the apprenticeship of making them. You must remember that wood is living and "breathing". It's not metal. You can not temper it like metal. You can use hot linseed oil to seal a bow in multiple layers. As far as dry heating the bow but keep the back cool as specified.
-
I thought about doing it with Ipe to see if it would help bending some curves in but never got around to it.
-
Thanks for the replies. It gets boring at work, so my mind wanders from time to time...I may try both when I get home. I have some hickory that's been cut and sitting around for a year or so, and I plan to cut down a large persimmon tree. If I think about it (and if I'm able to get into it at all), I'll post pictures as it comes along, if y'all are interested.
As far as the one about baking it in clay, I was thinking it would help drop the moisture from the wood. The air gets pretty muggy where I live. I wouldn't put it directly in the fire, but would have it raised. Also, it's pretty easy to keep the fire low.
Nate
-
I hate to disagree with you guys but a lot of bows have been heated and shaped by applying heat to the belly, back, and sides of the bow. Heating and heat treating are different methods.
-
I hate to disagree with you guys but a lot of bows have been heated and shaped by applying heat to the belly, back, and sides of the bow. Heating and heat treating are different methods.
Not really. The amount of heat it takes to manipulate wood with heat is about the same as heat treating. The wood is being shaped with heat treating whether you straighten a kink or reflex a whole limb.
The point is likely more that direct heat on the back of a working section is a no no. Still, the idea that the back can and should remain cool during heat treating is highly unlikely. The heat transfer heats it up way past what would be called 'cool".
-
OK, OK, I exaggerated a bit when I said cold :-[ :-[ :-[
-
Even cool would be an exaggeration. ;)
-
Could deep frying it help cure it faster without checking?
-
When oiling wood, for spoons, or cricket bats, it tends to soften the wood. Its not boiling the wood in oil, and only penetrates a shallow amount. I would think boiling a stave in oil, the oil would penetrate more comprehensively.
Hilary Greenland in her book advises against putting linseed oil on bows as a finish. I can't remember the exact words she used, but I think it caused more stringfollow, less performance. Linseed oil takes along time to cure properly.
It might be worth a try, but I think it would be unlikely to improve performance at all in a finished bow. An interesting experiment, but expensive, dangerous and too much effort for me personally even if it was successful at increasing performance.
-
No better smell than fried osage.....hum yum... :) ;)
DBar
-
You could try wrapping the limb in Bacon?
-
If the oil is to hot it "cooks " the wood making it very brittle and burnt. Oil at just the right heat is like bioling the stave and works well. But to hot ruins it. It's not worth it unless you have a very regulated setup. I know only from experience with Osage and vegetable oil.
-
Not sure the point of it but I actually eventually went to a metal shop to see how much a bow "trough" would cost to have made that I could put across two burners, to heat water, to slow heat a stave in the water, then to remove quickly to a caul and clamp it down all at once in order to form it. I gave up on it but still think it might work. A green stave might check, depending on wood type, whether oil or water.
-
As far as the boiling side, I am thinking about using black steel/iron pipe 3" X 8' with 45deg upright on the ends to release heat. Or, an upright open angle in the center and both ends. The oil, I was thinking of using lard from WallyWorld.
The clay/dirt (clay soil on my property), I am think of using chimney vent pipe 8" or 10" x 8' to pack the dirt around to green bow. Hang over the fire, with adjustable heights, or bury it on top of coals from a hardwood fire. I'm not sure, but I think that would take a while longer to heat and cool down. I would split the top of that pipe along the top from end to end. I could set the bow in there with the belly down.
Nate
-
Sounds dangerous.
Have you ever added an egg to really hot oil to fry it? :)
Jawge
-
No matter what it does to the wood it will add a lot of non-working mass.
-
8)
-
Haha who hasn't done that with eggs? This is just ideas that pop into my mind, from time to time. I may try both of them, if I'm not busy with other things when I get home.
If I were to boil the whole thing in water, would it have negative affects on the wood (since it will still be green)?
And, do you think baking one in clay soil would dry out a nearly finished bow too much, or too quickly? The dirt itself would already have moisture in it, and it seems to me that as it dried out, it would draw the same out of the green wood...
Nate
-
at that point whats the difference from kiln dried wood?
-
I guess there's only one way to find out...
I've never done anything with kiln dried wood. As far as making a bow, anyway...I'm still very new at this. There may be a difference from the weight of the dirt and the compression it will have on the bow, though.
-
I am not sure from your posts exactly what it is that you wish to accomplish with hot oil, but gunsmiths have a technique for bending wood stocks, that utilize hot oil
-
Robert Elmer mentions the use of hot oil for bending bows.
-
Have you ever found a really old French fry that fell down the side of your car seat? Do they make you think of bows?
-
Well, that was what a psychologist would call and intrusive thought...
-
Willie,
I didn't have a plan on doing anything specific with that. I was/am just curious of what it would do to the wood, the same with cooking one in clay soil over a fire.
The one I think I will most likely try is the one with the clay.
-
Asharrow,
I wonder if I put just the ends of the bow in hot oil (near to frying temp), would be bad, instead of just heating it on the belly...
(like deep frying, not frying eggs)
maybe it would help doing a recurve (how many ways to skin a cat?), I want to do a recurve at some point...
-
Yep lots of ways to skin a cat for sure. Good luck, be careful, keep us up dated, as for me I think I will stick to steaming and dry heat. :) Very effected and not to dangerous. ;) :) :)
Pappy
-
A friend of mine thought using dry ice to quick cure and shape a stave was feasible too.Hav'nt heard from him how that's going.Seasoned wood.Steam and dry heat for me too.
-
It'll be a few months before I'm able to, but I think I will try it...yea, I'll let y'all know.