Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Joseph on January 20, 2016, 08:30:27 am
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Hey everyone
I'm the sort of guy that's into PVC bows and bowyer utilities.
For arguments sake, does anyone have any arguments against PVC bows, apart from the fact that there is a lot less artistic quality of making a wood bow.
(I know this might sound that I am looking for the bow only and not the crafting of one)
Below are a korean overdraw style PVC bow and a recurve PVC bow with wooden Siahs
Both bows are made by this guy:https://www.youtube.com/user/BackyardBowyer
I would show my own but I haven't painted any of them.
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No argument that they don't belong on here. ;)
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Haha I wonder if I should try to start a thing about pvc Bows because they are pretty primitive
I mean not tools except for a heat gun, a plank of wood for tapering and pots for recurving.
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Nothing primitive about pvc, this belongs in the campfire
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I was referring to the whole primitive archer thing but hey :)
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The point is that it's not primitive.
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Oh okay, I didn't really get the comment with the whole campfire thing but anyways...
I suppose you can make a PVC bow over a campfire if you really want?
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Joe, have a read of the forum rules and the Campfire comment will make sense. This site is dedicated to primitive archery and skills. Plastic, fiberglass, drywall tape and whatever else isn't allowed per the forum rules. We don't make them, just follow them. The Campfire section is basically an open discussion.
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Haha okay sorry maybe I should read forum rules before posting.
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It never hurts :)
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Yep where can I find the rules
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"Stickied" at the top of each section. They vary depending on what section you are using.
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Aside from the non-primitive aspect my issue with PVC bows is from a safety standpoint. PVC will degrade over time and there's no indication as to the condition of a PVC bow, one minute it's shooting fine and looking good, the next shot it can explode. Now this can be true for wood and glass as well but generally they will give you and indication they are getting old, checks, crysals, delams, creaking, etc. In the historical society I do most of my shooting in we do an inspection of all bows before they are allowed on the shooting line, not a 100% guarantee of safety but it does prevent bows with obvious issues from being shot, same with arrows, PVC bows are rejected out of hand for the fact that they will almost never give an indication they are old and getting brittle until they blow.
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It just smells funny >:D >:D >:D
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I just think it's funny when people say PVC bows are as fast as wood or fiberglass bows... happens a lot on another site.
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Yep where can I find the rules
The fact that you had to ask does not bode well
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I've built a few pvc bows and they are all right, they don't compare well against a average wood bow, the good thing about them is when one dies they tend to just fold over
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They have their place and i like em. Real good for bow fishing. Also tpugh and not likely to break. I jear cold weather isnt good for them as they get brittle. Id love to chono one, i have a chrono, but no pvc bow.
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Have to agree, Marc. I like the 'key" word in the title, "Argument". That's a heck of a start.
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PVC bows, in my experience, lasted maximum of 5 years
They generally show wear, like small tears in the pvc and age wearing, along with squeaking
If they break they usually do it quietly, with collapsing limbs, and no snapping unless the pipe is very thin.
Also collapses are easily fixed
What is a fast bow?
The fastest pvc bow I've seen is 176.3 on the chrony
They do tend to be alot more robust and you can throw them around a lot more, and not really care
I will definitely agree they are good bow fishers
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??? :o I thought PVC was for pluming. ;) :D
Pappy
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??? :o I thought PVC was for pluming. ;) :D
Pappy
That sums it up, nicely....
Don't use PVC for bows unless you are going to use bamboo for your plumbing >:D
Del
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Not trying to be rude but trees aren't exactly designed for bow making.
Unless you want to use bows for oxygen production...
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I use bows made from trees for taking oxygen away, from critters. ;) :) Just playing here Joseph, don't take offence, it just most here build wood bows. To each there own but if we can't have a little fun then what good is it. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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Did you really expect high praises and excitement
for bringing PVC to the table here? Most of the people on here spend most if not all their free time making wood + natural materials bows. I know there's lots of materials you can make a bow out of I just don't care about any of them...
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I use bows made from trees for taking oxygen away, from critters. ;) :) Just playing here Joseph, don't take offence, it just most here build wood bows. To each there own but if we can't have a little fun then what good is it. ;) :) :)
Pappy
Haha I wasn't taking offence, I was trying not to offend
Some forums can be like that ;)
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Did you really expect high praises and excitement
for bringing PVC to the table here? Most of the people on here spend most if not all their free time making wood + natural materials bows. I know there's lots of materials you can make a bow out of I just don't care about any of them...
Bro, I'm sorry but I've just heard a lot of criticism toward PVC and I wanted to know why...
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On my second bag of popcorn...thanks for feeding this kid guys. .. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Joseph a lot of us here are happy and glad someone of your age is here and intertested in primitive arts....but.....yeah nuff said and ill stop there n keep the rest of my comment to myself..... >:D :laugh:
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I agree with Chris for the most part, I'll say this about the PVC bow phenomenon, it's definitely gotten a lot of young folks into archery in a big way and I hope that many of them transition beyond the PVC and get into real bowyering. Joseph, glad you're here and hope you spark an interest in wood bows, don't let some here get to you, just keep in mind this is the kind of place where at the mention of fiberglass folks spit on the floor, lol. Myself I'm interested in traditional archery but not really making bows myself and in fact the bow I shoot is a fiberglass limbed Manchu bow because I don't have the money for a true composite and don't want to bother with the maintenance anyway, but the bow porn here is second to none, lol, and I've learned a lot just hanging around and reading.
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Instant gratification and no skill is what drives these things, not directed at you Joe, our society in general. Is there an app for PVC bows?
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Joseph, these guys can be a rough bunch, but with all the calluses on their hands, what do you expect? Notice the use of the letter I in their opinion. Its just what they care about not what actually is. They dont have to much an interest in it. You wanna talk pvc bows, Paleoplanet has a section for them. Not many take much stock in them, But a pvc bow that shoots 160 fps is a lethal weapon and faster than many bows made. Skill, hell I never made one, I dont know, but I assume there is a lot of design that could be done much like with wooden bows, getting tiller and profile right. They are water proof, no worry about the lower limb warping from being stored wrong. If the tiller aint right, heat will fix it. There are lots of reasons pvc bows are good. Dont get disheartened. Make em if you like em, and dont seek your happiness from other folks approval.
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I meant no ridicule by what I said. I'm all for people enjoying archery in any fashion. But this tight knit group of people spend an awful lot of time making bows in possibly the hardest fashion so you're not going to find a lot of love here. I'm sure there great for little kids and people that want quick results making them. Have fun and don't let me hurt your feelings I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that are into the same sort of thing
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Joseph it's not the PVC thing, you would get about the same response with glass or wheel bows here. Most here's main interest in archery is all natural bows overall and self bow in general. ;) Don't run off, hang around and who knows it may strike an interest for you one day.
It would be kind of like me going to a Muzzle loader site and want an opinion about a BB guns or 3.06 rifle. ;) :)
Pappy
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I meant every word I typed. Don't settle for less, don't set your bar lower than your ankles and strive for more. Who cares how fast they shoot (temporarily) or that they are waterproof. Get more from yourself and your mind young man! I don't even know you and I can tell you that you are capable.
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. . . . . and dont seek your happiness from other folks approval.
imo, words to live by.
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I meant every word I typed. Don't settle for less, don't set your bar lower than your ankles and strive for more. Who cares how fast they shoot (temporarily) or that they are waterproof. Get more from yourself and your mind young man! I don't even know you and I can tell you that you are capable.
I have never been interested in something I wasnt capable of. ( Except a few girls I can think of ) And I find that to be true of many people. If you are interested you are by default capable.
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Hi Joseph
In the urban jungle many of us live in, a PVC bow seems indeed a “primitive” attribute: you made it yourself with very simple tools, PVC pipes were never intended for this purpose (making it more exciting) and still it shoots as well as many regular bows.
If someone's goal is to have a decent bow as fast and cheap as possible, PVC is the deal. I made my fair share of PVC bows, out of curiosity and learned a lot about bow physics, but found it just too easy. It doesn’t take a lot of skill to make about any possible type of bow from PVC (except for a regular longbow or a yumi). Making about every design type of bow from natural materials (wood, horn, sinew, plant fibers, hide glue, …) will require extreme dedication and craftmanship, not to mention close to a lifetime of bow making efforts. That’s why I (and I guess many others here) value primitive archery so much more.
For the rest: it looks like a PVC-wood composite bow (very short PVC working section, very long extremely light wooden recurves) can reach 200 fps@10 gpp (Nicholas Tomihama claims to have made one some time ago). That's quite an achievement by itself, but it doesn't relate to skill, only to knowledge.
There's a pretty large google community (>1000 members) on PVC archery, plenty of PVC addicts there. Different audience here.
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Id love to see that 200fps bow!
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That was at 31" draw, so outside Tim Baker's 200 fps 28" 10gpp challenge
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I have never made a PVC bow and probably won't even though I think they are kinda' neat. $5 for a pretty good bow fills a lot of gaps in what will get people shooting.
Early on I made a pile of wood bows for people who thought they would like shooting a traditional bow, most are probably occupying a corner in a dusty closet now, unused. I wish I had handed out PVC bows to these folk to try out instead of the bows I labored so hard to make.
My best friend has probably made well over 200 wood bows but got in the mood to experiment with PVC a while back. He has since outfitted an army of youngsters with good shooting PVC bows, much better bows than the crappy excuses for kids bows they sell at the big box stores.
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I agree with Eric. I've seen a few kids get the bug from tinkering with PVC. A couple of them are now building stave bows now.
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Um...
Thanks everyone (or not ;) ) I guess...
As for me being discouraged, good luck with that :)
Ill just keep my thoughts about PVC to myself :-X and go cry on someones shoulder :'( (jkslol)
Anyway, I've started my own bow, a pyramid spotted gum board with great, straight grain, but I've this horrible feeling it will snap into little heartless pieces as soon as I am done and full draw it.
I'm not actually using proper tools ( a machete with another handle and a wood rasp + bandsaw) but it's getting there.
I promise this is the last time I'll bring up PVC on this site
Anyway thanks everyone.
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Seriously? Now look what ya all gone an done. You broke him. It could bave been fun watching his lvc adventures. Now he is gonna keep them to himself.
Proper tools? Whats them? Most folks here know i only use one tool, and thats cause im rather proud of that fact. Your machete should do fine, though they are easily broken if not handled intelligent. So be careful and keep us updated.
Btw. My very first bow attempt... I used an old lawnmower blade. It did the job. The bow on the other hand, i did say it was an attempt.
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You have to take Pearlie Boy's advise with a grain of the stuff they dump on their highways, he's from Michigan, do I need to say anymore? Have fun doing what you are doing till you are ready to play with wood.