Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on February 16, 2016, 08:30:08 am

Title: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 16, 2016, 08:30:08 am
On inspecting my work dry heating in some bend I noticed I had caused a dent on the back of this osage.

I had used a small padded block to shim underneath for a little more bend and the wood was hot where I put the block so even though the block was soft wood it created this.

It is mid limb. Does not appear to have cut any fibers. I have tried to steam it out without results except for getting a red staining around the limb from the red rag I was using  ???

I am considering sinewing but would rather not. I just don't think it is trustworthy as is.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: paulsemp on February 16, 2016, 08:42:38 am
Sometimes those end up being disastrous. I usually use cut pieces of leather on the back. Hopefully its not a problem for you good luck
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 16, 2016, 08:45:16 am
If it wont come out doobs, I wouldn't use it. That bugger will pop a splinter, bet on it.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 16, 2016, 09:23:25 am
Ok, thanks guys.
I won't use it as is but what about sinewed?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: sleek on February 16, 2016, 09:30:31 am
I have done that a few times but never had a breakage. Guess i have been lucky. Just throw some rawhide on it and carry on. Perhaps use an iron on a wet rag or a heat gun to really put some steam to it. Just know, hot steam dries out wood so it needs to rehydrate.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Pat B on February 16, 2016, 09:43:45 am
Can you reduce some of the width to remove the dent?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 16, 2016, 09:51:59 am
Pat, no it is right across the middle.

Kevin, I tried the iron and rag-no luck. So you used yours without backing and it held up?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: sleek on February 16, 2016, 10:12:37 am
I did but after reading the other guys comments i wonder if i am just lucky. Way i see it, if you toss it now its junk. May as well finish and pull it. If it breaks oh well, if not, keep it.  I did however do my best to blend in the dent by burnishing the back with most pressure around the edges. I cant see the sent bery well on my phone but i bet if you fade the dent edges out slowly it wont be a sharp stress riser and it will last longer.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Jim Davis on February 16, 2016, 10:24:50 am
I have acciDENTally done this a few times.

Early in the 1990s revival of self bowyery, it was common to "bone" the backs of bows. The entire back was worked over with a smooth round object such as a bone or cylinder of  metal to compact the fibers-essentially denting the entire back.

Not mentioned these days, but I have done that to the area around a dent and then just finished up the bow. I've done this a half dozen times and had no ill effects.

Now if the dent has torn the fibers, that's a different story.

Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: osage outlaw on February 16, 2016, 10:47:14 am
can you go down to the next ring?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: bubby on February 16, 2016, 10:51:32 am
can you go down to the next ring?





Yeah can you it still looks pretty thick
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Josh B on February 16, 2016, 11:42:44 am
Generally speaking, if the dent is not square edge(broken fibers)  you can burnish it and be fine, but not always.  I wouldn't trust it as a trade bow or put it in someone else's hands, but I'd build it for myself and see what happens.  If you have enough thickness, then doing what Clint said would be the best solution.  It's hard to tell by the picture, but it looks like that piece might have a little curl to it.  It could just be tool marks though. Josh
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: osage outlaw on February 16, 2016, 11:54:13 am
I took some 1/4" pine and cut it into a bunch of small  pieces.  I glued leather onto them and rounded the edges of the leather off.  That's what I use for all of my spacers.  They work great.  I've made small dents from just a piece of leather before. 
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Aaron H on February 16, 2016, 11:57:05 am
I have done the same as Clint, but with 1/8" rubber
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: osage outlaw on February 16, 2016, 12:04:21 pm
I've got some of those also Aaaaron, but I'm afraid to use them with a heat gun.  Do you have problems with them melting?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 16, 2016, 12:21:43 pm
can you go down to the next ring?

No, I got too close to finish thickness and then decided to change the profile.

Josh and AA, I don't think any fibers were broken but??

I am gonna tiller it out some and then decide if I want to sinew it or not.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Aaron H on February 16, 2016, 12:40:26 pm
I've got some of those also Aaaaron, but I'm afraid to use them with a heat gun.  Do you have problems with them melting?
No problems, but I'm using some good quality rubber gasket material I got from work
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Pappy on February 17, 2016, 04:23:15 am
I get the now and then when doing some heavy tweaking, I usually just burnish them out our lightly scrape if the ring is thick enough and move on.  ;)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Selfbowman on February 17, 2016, 08:22:35 am
Yes those are a pain. I try just heating them with heat gun and rasing the grain back up if not to bad. That one is pretty deep though.  Arvin
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Buckeye Guy on February 17, 2016, 05:33:32 pm
I have seen several  of those dents that held up just fine when left alone
but they add character that I don't  like so well  so I try to avoid doing them
I say keep going lets see what happens
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: bushboy on February 17, 2016, 05:49:13 pm
Not sure what you tried but a wet cloth rag and some. Tin foil and heat gun might work?
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: crooketarrow on February 17, 2016, 11:10:50 pm
  You boys need to smarten up.

   For 12 years I quit using heat. I been adding reflex, reflex, reflex, Beening tips all as soon as possable while green.You won't get those cinks when beening tips green.

  Little early prep work cutting Green stave's into bow form. Your bows well on its way 4, 5.10 years down the road. when you get to it it's ready. You have a simi bow already cut into form. 1/4 the works you've already done. When you do it to it.

I know lots of people can't wait that long. But if you do you see what you been missing in your bow speed,cast and long jedituy.

  Heat changes,damages wood sells. One there damaged there's no repairing them. This is why some woods take heat so much better than other.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Pappy on February 18, 2016, 04:36:30 am
Ya crooketarrow we are a bunch of dummies alright, thanks for pointing that out. ::) ::) funny I have never seen one of the magnificent bows you build  ??? I would love to see some, also love to see some gnarly Osage that you tweaked and straightened green. ::)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: paulsemp on February 18, 2016, 07:47:14 am
Thanks for saving me some typing Pappy!  What do you do when you go out and cut 20, 30, 40 staves? Hurry up and work them all down? I'd rather have a couple of cracks then have 40 Bows have roughed out clamped laying all over my house.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Pappy on February 18, 2016, 08:07:47 am
Ya we are so dumb I really can't figure out why he bothers to get on this site, must just feel sorry for us and want to help us learn how to really build a good bow instead of the junk we build now. ::) ::) Sorry for the rant, but man some people. >:(
 Pappy
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 18, 2016, 08:14:04 am
DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER HOW FAST YOUR ARROW GETS THERE
20 YEARS OF DOING 20 YEARS OF LEARNING 20 YEARS OF TEACHING


Maybe you dummies need to read the above again. Get with it pappy and Pauly.


Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Aaron H on February 18, 2016, 08:33:48 am
Hahaha
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: osage outlaw on February 18, 2016, 08:35:10 am
Some guys seem to have all the answers.  They never post any pictures of their work to prove it though.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 18, 2016, 08:38:55 am
I've seen a few flickers of his work. That's why I'm having fun with this, I take no stock in any of it.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 18, 2016, 09:05:13 am
I've had that happen. I just ignored it or maybe sanded the area around it it a bit. I guess I should have been worried.  :)

Actually, The Dean uses steam on green wood to do his bending as described in Hunting the Osage Bow. He does have a nice way of putting things though.

 Jawge
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PatM on February 18, 2016, 10:13:49 am
" long jedituy" def.- When the force remains with your bow forever.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: bubby on February 18, 2016, 11:07:29 am
" long jedituy" def.- When the force remains with your bow forever.






😃😃😃😃😃
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Pappy on February 19, 2016, 04:30:34 am
 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Thanks PatM , I sure needed a good laugh this morning, almost spit my coffee all over the key board. ;D ;D ;D
 Pappy
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: burchett.donald on February 19, 2016, 08:05:31 am
  Ok guy's... >:(    I'm calling it a cheap shot making fun of a guys spelling....Really? I don't think it's funny at all  >:(     This is not what PA is about...
                                                                                                                                        Don









Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 19, 2016, 08:22:51 am
Its simple, Don. When a guy throws a few punches? He'd best get his hands up.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Josh B on February 19, 2016, 08:23:34 am
  Ok guy's... >:(    I'm calling it a cheap shot making fun of a guys spelling....Really? I don't think it's funny at all  >:(     This is not what PA is about...
                                                                                                                                        Don

Don, 99 times out of a hundred I would agree with you.  I've never cared for people taking swipes at someone for their spelling, grammar or other handicaps.  But not this time.  He basically said that everyone that heat bends wood  is dumb.  When you start casting doubt on other people's intelligence you kinda open yourself up to the same.  Also consider that this is far from the first time he's acted in this manner.  Just the way I see it.  Josh
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PatM on February 19, 2016, 08:25:30 am
"You boys need to smarten up."   -  crooketarrow
     
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: sleek on February 19, 2016, 08:50:09 am
I kinda look at what he said a little different. When I say stuff like what he said its ment to be taken lightly, not as an insult. Seems it may have been taken wrong and everyone was quick to jump on him. I hope i am never mis understood because looks like it would be hell to recover from.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: half eye on February 19, 2016, 08:55:44 am
Kinda got to go with Don and Sleek fellas....even if ya took it right or wrong, Pappy slapped him down pretty darned good....I'm throwin the penalty flag for "piling on" , I mean ya knocked him down, stomped him some, how much more ya need?
rich
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 19, 2016, 09:02:30 am
I agree with half eye. Let it go.
My brother calls me stupid all the time and I often return the favor. So what. I know he loves me.
Anyway, he's right. :)
Jawge
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: PatM on February 19, 2016, 09:21:28 am
Perhaps, but this is his main contribution. Telling everyone that using heat is dumb and only he knows better. When you label a whole group like that you have to expect retorts from all of them too.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: osage outlaw on February 19, 2016, 10:48:53 am
It wasn't long ago that he said that anyone who puts a backing on a bow sucks at picking out staves and needs to learn how to tiller.  He makes posts that in my opinion insult almost every member of this forum.  Nobody was making fun of his spelling until he starts making comments like the one in this thread.   
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Lumberman on February 19, 2016, 12:09:54 pm
I for one appreciate some healthy mudslinging as long it's a similar approach from both sides. No need to bully but "longjediuty def" haha that's good stuff, makes a day of mediocre red oak grading go by much quicker.. SWWWEEEETTT.. lol
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: paulsemp on February 19, 2016, 07:54:06 pm
I don't think there was any bullying going on. All I know is where I come from you tell someone they need to smarten up that is taken the same as someone being called dumb. If he truly wanted to enlighten us then he would have gone about it in a completely different manner. So I say put your money where your mouth is and show us the way. Plus when you put something out there for the world to read be ready for the world to answer
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Danzn Bar on February 19, 2016, 08:53:41 pm
If you ignore it..it might go away.........................not the dent  ;)
DBar
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 19, 2016, 10:06:34 pm
DuH, I got a wooden spoon  :o
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 19, 2016, 10:23:28 pm
Now that's high quality H2O.

Well I believe the guys that have had them last without problems but I took the opportunity to use up some sinew I had ready and be  very sure it's gonna last.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: sleek on February 19, 2016, 10:42:24 pm
Ya know, that aint gonna be bad. Nice decision.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: DuBois on February 19, 2016, 11:39:20 pm
If it fails, I believe it will be my fault not the materials.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: sleek on February 20, 2016, 12:30:18 am
I doubt it will unless the wood just cant handle that much sinew.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Floridabowyer on February 20, 2016, 10:06:44 am
I have a dent from dry heat bending in a 55" osage bow that I sometimes string and shoot but always predict an explosion at full draw! Now I think I will back it and make a more trustworthy bow out of it.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Jodocus on February 20, 2016, 10:36:52 am

Early in the 1990s revival of self bowyery, it was common to "bone" the backs of bows. The entire back was worked over with a smooth round object such as a bone or cylinder of  metal to compact the fibers-essentially denting the entire back.

Not mentioned these days, but I have done that to the area around a dent and then just finished up the bow. I've done this a half dozen times and had no ill effects.


I heated areas with dents like that one and polished them with a bottle with some success. Press hard and don't expect it to become completely invisible.
Title: Re: Clamping dent on back?
Post by: Pappy on February 21, 2016, 11:48:47 am
I did and for that I apologize , sorry, should just keep in mind everyone has there on opinion. Now back to the bow, looks like you got the problem solved. Nice fix. Pappy